electrical certificate of compliance

[murdock]

i am so tired of hearing and reading the same story...how people are getting ripped off by the electrical certificate of compliance...

when are people going to use common sense...you dont buy a second hand car without getting someone you trust to check the vehicle before you pay out your hard earned money ....why the f%^&* do people let the seller do the certificate of compliance...for what could be the biggest investment they will ever make and have to pay for the rest of their life...wake up people...have your investment checked by someone you trust or an independent company...PLEASE...i am so tired of hearing complaints

[AndyD]

I think they're under the impression that the COC will be done according to a set of rules so it shouldn't matter who commissions the electrician to test for it, the results should be the same.

[adrianh]

when are people going to use common sense...you dont buy a second hand car without getting someone you trust to check the vehicle before you pay out your hard earned money


I don't think the average guy know an electrician, plumber, tiler, builder etc let alone one who they trust.

I agree with AndyD, it is not a function of whether it is completed by the buyer or the seller, it is about the integrity of the electrician.

[murdock]

so what you are sayiing is the elctricians out there are the problem...well i would agree to a point...the way i see if you get an electrician who stands on te side of the road with a sign...reading electrician and phone number...what do you expect...i do believe the electricians in the industry are tooo well protected and as i have mentioned before if there wasnt a fine for wearing a seat belt very few people would wear one...and that is why so many are taking chances...because they can get away with it...and the customers themselves are also to blame for using unregistered...unskilled people to carry out electrical work because they can save a buck or two...then try sell the property and cry long tears when a person like myself does the inspection reoprt and finds R40 000 worth of illegal wiring...so they find one of these electricians who do COC without even leaving the office for around R450

THE PROBLEM WITH THE INDUSTRY IS THE PEOPLE WHO REGULATE THE ELECTRICAL INDUSTRY DO NOT HAVE THE SKILLS OR MANPOWER TO CONTROL THE INDUSTRY SO THEY ARE TRYING TO PALM IT OFF ONTO PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS AND CONTRACTORS WHO ALSO DONT HAVE THE MANPOWER OR AUTHOURITY OR CORRECT ETHICS TO MANAGE IT...ONLY ONCE THE GOVERMENT PUTS A SYSTEM IN PLACE WILL THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY BE PROTECTED AGAINST THESE CROOKS.

another way of looking at it...i cost R750 + vat and up to do an "inspection report"...NOT A CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE...there seems to be so much confusion with this...people seem to think if i inspect the property they qualify for a coc...WRONG...that is just the beginning of the process...a house for example...the coc will be at least 6 pages for the coc and at least 3 pages...with a sketch of the property and location of all components tested...an actuall inspection report with the details of the visual inspection...photos of non compliant components...a print out of all test results and any other notes taken.

some factories we test have inspection reports 50 pages long...which include the transfomer information...structual earth test results...thermal inspection reports...etc...etc.

something else i have notoiced is inspectors test an installation do an inspection report and never go back to the site to verify the repairs where actually carried out.

when i started out as an electrician 28+ years ago at 16 years old i was so proud that i had manged to get a position as an appy electrician...nowa days i feel embarressed to be regarded as an electrican...i dont know what my title would be at this point in time...maybe something like master thermal power electrical and engineering technician yeah right.

[AndyD]

so what you are sayiing is the elctricians out there are the problem...well i would agree to a point...the way i see if you get an electrician who stands on te side of the road with a sign...reading electrician and phone number...what do you expect...

When it comes to certification of any kind, be it COC or Safety Certificates the problem is completely with the electricians. Only licensed electricians are able to issue certification and register those certificates. I don't think you can blame the 'lowest price mentality' of the customer, the fact the electrician must be registered to do this means that the certification standards should be constant. If they're not then it's an industry problem not a customer one.

Maybe the businesses that offer pest and electrical certificates bundled together at low prices are cornering the house sale certificate market. They can afford to do the electrical certificates at a lower price because they're already on site for the bug certificate (or vice versa). There might be an arguement that they're loss leadering but this is a business ethics issue: even if that's the case the electrical certification standards should still be consistent.

[adrianh]

...and the customers themselves are also to blame for using unregistered...unskilled people to carry out electrical work because they can save a buck or two...

This stement is problematic. When the average person goes to see a surgeon they expect the surgeon to be skilled and qualified. By the same token, when they look up the details of an electrician in the yellow pages, they expects the same. The customer doesn't know whether the surgeon or electrician is qualified - and if they were to show a fake qualification document, the customer wouldn't know the difference anyway.

The problem goes deeper than just certification and electricians - it goes to all professions. I have been to numerous sites where the DB boards were signed off by "qualified" electricians. Those boards were downright dangerous, but again, the customer doesn't know one way or another whether 10mm or 6mm wire should be used or whether the earth leakage is installed or not. I have seen plumbers on site install PVC pipe and charge for copper.

It all comes down to the integrity of the individual.

[murdock]

When it comes to certification of any kind, be it COC or Safety Certificates the problem is completely with the electricians. Only licensed electricians are able to issue certification and register those certificates. I don't think you can blame the 'lowest price mentality' of the customer, the fact the electrician must be registered to do this means that the certification standards should be constant. If they're not then it's an industry problem not a customer one.

Maybe the businesses that offer pest and electrical certificates bundled together at low prices are cornering the house sale certificate market. They can afford to do the electrical certificates at a lower price because they're already on site for the bug certificate (or vice versa). There might be an arguement that they're loss leadering but this is a business ethics issue: even if that's the case the electrical certification standards should still be consistent.

let me try explain this in a diferent way..

i get called out ot do an inspection...the customer has saved himself a lot of money by using an unskilled unqualified labourer who knows just enough to con the customer and has a mate who signs over coc for his work without even going to site...he sells the house and saves himself a lot of money...knowing the so called electrician he has used is not legit.

he moves into a new house and the previous owner has done the same thing...but now because he has bought the new house and spent a few million...decides to get a reputable inspector in to check the house and finds the house has a list 10 pages long of faults...talk about a back lashing of note...now he wants to bitch and complain...but there are some many doing this type of thing.

bottem line is the inspector who signs over the coc is the crimminal...who needs to be bought ot book...but the customers must stop using so called electricians from the road side...and pirate contractors...police the industry and root out these crimminals and everyone will benefit.

my complaint is if you buy stolen goods you create a market for crimminals dont complain about that the crime rate is out of control.

[AndyD]

As long as there's an environment where licensed electricians can get away with writing out certificates for non-compliant installations then we can all debate who's at fault till we're blue in the face, fact is it will continue to happen. If the qualified electricians thought there would be repercussions for issuing dodgy certificates then it would stop very quickly, all the double standards would disappear....poof...gone.

The ECB or the local authority should retest 1 in 10 of the certificates issued and registered. Work on a three strikes system for minor problems found and revoke licenses for major infringements. If they're caught again after that then prosecute. Problem sorted, if there's no more unscrupulous tradesmen there won't be any unscrupulous customers either. :-)

[murdock]

As long as there's an environment where licensed electricians can get away with writing out certificates for non-compliant installations then we can all debate who's at fault till we're blue in the face, fact is it will continue to happen. If the qualified electricians thought there would be repercussions for issuing dodgy certificates then it would stop very quickly, all the double standards would disappear....poof...gone.

The ECB or the local authority should retest 1 in 10 of the certificates issued and registered. Work on a three strikes system for minor problems found and revoke licenses for major infringements. If they're caught again after that then prosecute. Problem sorted, if there's no more unscrupulous tradesmen there won't be any unscrupulous customers either. :-)

the ecb refuse to do anything they say they are only a board...thats it...they dont have any powers and dont police the industry nor will the eca...they just collect money

the blame all goes back to the department of labour...they are the people responsible for policing the industry...but i cant see any improvement there soon

[Sparks]

This headache will be around until after prostitution. There are hoards of people who want to cut corners and save a buck. The whole of society, not just the seller, buyer or contractor. All have bad apples. The pest control industry use people with minimum qualifications and hardly any true experience at minimum wage to carry the company through the quiet season. Some even resort to buying signed blank COCs' which unqualified people complete. A reputable working gorning body will never happen in sunny new SA. All we can do is keep our noses clean and try alert the public to what they are entitled to get in exchange for their hard earned cash.