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Thread: garnishee order for my domestic worker

  1. #11
    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
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    Teco, perhaps you are misinterpreting - a garnish order is not an implication of the employer. The issue at hand is the employer being served with a garnish order. This, by turn brings them into the process, but they are not under any obligation to sort the matter out. Some employers will help in various manners.
    As to the NCR, the employee needs to approach them if they feel the issue was unfair. Most credit givers, other than Micro lenders, AKA Loan sharks, aside, do all the neccessary. I accept that many persons are not totally aware of the consequences of the agreements that they sign, however once again when the nonsense starts they should not ignore the phone calls and leters and be responsible. Continously taking a stance that everyone is against us is not the way to progress. People need to realize that every action gets a reaction and there will always be consequences for our actions. The blame game, or he said she said game, is nothing more than an avoidance of owning up and saying I was wrong how can I fix it.
    Are there unscrupulous operators? For sure. Is it as simple as saying everyone had a choice to lend or by whom? No, but people certainly have a choice as to how to spend their money, be it R100 a week or R10 000 a week. I would be very confident that the majority of bad credit is linked to luxury purchases and not daily needs. A person in debt for food and clothes that lends money deserves some sympathy. But if they possess a TV, cell phone, slightly fancy clothes or even worse, as i suspect, they are in trouble for a debt linked to a purchase of such items, one really needs to question if they are being so hard done by and the world is so evil. It is a tough world, granted, There have been some serious transgressions and wrongs in the past, present and there will be in the future. However, people do need to start taking some responsibility and stop relying on crying foul, and feeling sorry for ourselves when our own actions get us into trouble.
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

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  3. #12
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    Can the employer claim compensation as a servant of the court? I think the whole thing is a cheek.

    Frankly, I'd hand it to my attorney & ask him to manage things.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

  4. #13
    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
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    The idea behind a garnish order is as such -
    Firstly we agree that debt needs to be paid and therefore an effecient collection system is required.
    In the absence of a garnish order, the Debtor would need to take full judgement and repossesion would need to take palce, this in turn leads to more costs and hence the person owing R500 could end up with costs of R3000-00. This could set the person back for ever. A garnish order is a payment scheme that the court works out as an alternative and less onerous way to obtain the money without destroying the creditor. In turn the employer, serves a duty to the state, by being the mechanism to ensure collection of the funds.
    I think we should also look at the practical issues from a debtor standpoint. If a person owes you R2000 and they have no possesions, the non garnish order route, would mean a full judgement. Consequently with legal fees etc, they now owe R3000. As they have no possesions, how would you get your money? You would have to write it off. By getting a garnish order, you get your money. Perhaps the debtor should pay the costs for the employer, who acts as the collection agent.
    I as an employer, have had numerous garnish orders, and they are no big deal. The only issue is that often when given the garnish order, the employee runs away, which could be a negative for the business.
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

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  6. #14
    Email problem BigRed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    .....The only issue is that often when given the garnish order, the employee runs away, which could be a negative for the business.
    We have such a case. The employer is only entitled to take a predetermined portion of the employees wages and pay this over to the garnishee / court. should this said individual however abscond or his employment be terminated (leaves) then such payments stop.

    Note: you cant just stop paying. Its another process of informing the garnishee / court that he / her has left your employ and therefore you the employer have no further obligation.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Garnishment: withholding of one's wages by one's employer to pay one's debt owed to a third party
    Sometimes it is good to inquire if the person working for you is not perhaps a victim. The truth is there are bad people and they do bad things. And yes you do get bad employees, friends and family members that always neglect to tell one the truth. “I hate it when people give me a sob story.”

    Still if, the person is guilty or not he or she is still entitled to information that may help them. It is not your battle, no need to start a war this is true and I respect that above all else. But please take a minute to understand the circumstances that will now surface.

    The employee is going to complain stating that they cannot survive on the income they get after the deductions and in the end of the day you as an employer can ignore the complaint OR you will end up giving the employee some form of aid.

    That is why I would go through hell and high-waters and subject myself and my valuable time to get that employee off my back before the complaining start. By getting the claim dismissed or even getting some form of help may and I do stress may help getting the employee free from there mistake.

    There is no choice here, go to the bank and make the arrangements and allow the amount to go off by debit order for the time specified, and get on with your life. Or do a bit of investigation and try to avoid coming conflict. See in the end of the day you probably will have to go to the bank regardless. But because you did the extra homework you know you did everything humanly possible.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

  8. #16
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    .......No, but people certainly have a choice as to how to spend their money, be it R100 a week or R10 000 a week. I would be very confident that the majority of bad credit is linked to luxury purchases and not daily needs. A person in debt for food and clothes that lends money deserves some sympathy. But if they possess a TV, cell phone, slightly fancy clothes or even worse, as i suspect, they are in trouble for a debt linked to a purchase of such items, one really needs to question if they are being so hard done by and the world is so evil. It is a tough world, granted, There have been some serious transgressions and wrongs in the past, present and there will be in the future. However, people do need to start taking some responsibility and stop relying on crying foul, and feeling sorry for ourselves when our own actions get us into trouble.
    This is the crux of the matter for me. I accept that there are genuine poverty cases who can't afford to pay because of a change in financial circumstances since the credit of load was taken out and I do have sympathy for these.

    I agree that all too often the reason for non payment is unwillingness to take a drop in standard of living if it involves missing out on the luxuries and status symbols that the borrower has become accustomed to. I think there's a worrying underlying attitude all the way through society that the minute the borrower defaults on payment, the business or lender is always at fault and shouldn't have given the person money in the first place. The lender is more often than not all too happy to give an Oscar winning performance as the victim who never had a chance.

  9. #17
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    Do the SA Courts still issue judgment against a person who is not in court?

    In the past, the loansharks would use this as a way to use the court system as part of their pressure-tactics (mafia) on the person. The Sheriff could serve the summons to a vacant lot, doorpost, tree - whatever - at some long-outdated domicillium address, which the loansharks knew had long-since been updated.

    Absa-Bank were renouned for this in former years.

    Under these circumstances, I would not comply with enforcing a garnishee court order. Period.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    I dislike it when people pressure me. If I get this letter and I know I didn’t give that person a payslip or any other kind of documents. Then there is no-way they could have done a proper credit check. And that is the point of the story really.

    No credit check and you still gave this person credit and now you are forcing MY HANDS! Oh! You better bring your A game! That is why I said what I have said get behind the story and then only if the facts are proven to be fact will they see their money.

    Otherwise, they can be damn sure that I will go to the ends of this earth and beyond to take their little scam down...
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

  11. #19
    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
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    Non attendance in any court matter does not stop proceedings. Proceedings still require that all process has been followed.
    A party can get a order changed by going to court and making application and explaining. Of course this needs knowledge or money for attorney, so again kinda tough.
    As to the address, every contratc will place on obligation on you to inform of new address etc.
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

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  13. #20
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Well that is why I learned to use systems like Consumer counsel, CCMA and the NCR along with a few others. See if your facts are right and according to the laws and with the added advice of the above mentioned it has been my experience that you get stuff done faster thus limiting your costs to the absolute minimum.

    Unfortunately the case and point is made. Lawyers are expensive and it is because of this “system” that people don’t seek justice.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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