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Thread: Who may work on an electrical installation?

  1. #21
    Email problem 123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    ps I only registered as a SPT to issue the odd Coc on residential houses. But now it seems to me that I am not allowed to work as an electrician, which is the only trade I have. Or does my trade means zero at this stage?
    Hi Jacques, no I am registered as a SPT at the DOL/ECB, not as an IE or MIE. I wrote the installation rules, and passed, in 1987.

    One of the requirements for registering as an IE at the DOL in 2002 was the exam results of papers 1 & 2. 15 Years passed at the time when I requested my exam results from FET College. It is now 2010. Nothing.

    Which left only one option open, SPT, which I did. (2002).

    Which brings me to my original problem: I am not allowed to work on anything else except single phase installations, according to DOL.

    God knows what will be the case if I was not registered as an SPT! I would not be legally allowed to work at all! I was under the impression that if you are a qualified electrician with trade test papers, you are legally allowed to work on electricity? (Artikel 13(12) van die Wet op Mannekrag Opleiding, 1981)

    In conclusion, I (and thousands more) have effectively been regulated out of a job, a livelihood, a means to provide for my family, which, if tested in a court, could face some serious challenges i would imagine.

    Regards-Christo

    pse excuse the english-i am dutchman.

  2. #22
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    qualifying at olifants as an electrician makes you an electrician...not a spt or IE or MIE

    which means you can be employed by a registered company and work on any electrical installation...provided the installation is designed an monitored and inspected by the correctly qualified person.

    becoming a spt means you can then start a bussiness and register with the ecb as a spt and carry out work and test single phase installations.

    them if you decide to become an IE...you need to make sure all the requirements to become an IE are completed sent into the DOL and if they accept your aplication...they will send you notification with a certificate...you can then register with the ecb as an IE...you can then... if self employed start doing work and inspections on 3 phase systems.

    then lastly to the same applies for an MIE...do all the requirements to become an MIE once approved...you can then register with the ecb and work on and carry out inspections.

    i am sitting with a problem at the moment where the factory electrician carrys out all installation work and fault finding...i have since found out that he is not an electrician but a millwright...my problem is not the fault finding its the installation work...he hasnt a clue on electrical design and selection of equipment or cabling...but because there is nobody to check up on him he can do whatever he wants...but heres the catch and i dont think the company owner knows this...if there is an accident and someone is injured and found that there was negligance on the part of the electrician who is not suppose to be doing what he is doing the owner becomes liable for everything and will be held accountable...not the millwright...becuase he has not taken the correct precautions to ensure that the correctly qulaified people carry out the work he becomes guilty...unless the millwright lied about his qualifications and told him he is an IE...all the work they do is 3 phase...they have asked me to sign over work in the building...

    i decided to rather walk away...unless they are prepared to spend the money and do a design check on the entire installtion...otherwise what happens when something goes wrong...everyone points the finger at me and says "BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US ABOUT ALL THESE PROBLEMS" words still echoing in my head...thrown at me on a previous occassion...i unfortunatley have been burnt with this before....once burnt twice shy...unfortunatley my MIE status puts the food on the table for my family...without it are they gona feed me...yeah right.

    a big factory like that should at least have a design engineer on a part time basis or as a consultanting engineer overseeing new machines being installed etc...there are boilers...chemicals you name it.

  3. #23
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    passing the installation rules exam doesnt qualify you as an IE...there are various other requirements which need to be done before you can apply to become an IE as mentioned on this website in other threads.

    i have mate who has a similar problem because he has been working in the aircon game for the past 20 years and now the DOL have clamped down on him to register because they care doing the elctrical installtion part of the aircon installtion...he did his IE exam but never follwed through.

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  5. #24
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    I've been led to understand the key phrase in this is "under the general supervision" and this does not imply continuous "on-site supervision".
    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    Apparently the term "qualified electrician" tested and passed at Olifantsfontein means nothing. The fact that I have been tested, and passed on, three phase systems, installation work, wiring and faultfinding, transformers (also three phase) means buckall.
    Not quite - you can use it to qualify to sit the IE exam.

    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    As there is now way I will work "under" anyone except my customer, he basically denied me the right to work for myself and told me that what I am doing (to work) is illegal.
    I've always been amazed at how the crowd that says "the law is preventing me from earning a living" change their tune when they actually meet the requirements of the law. It doesn't take long before the very same people are going "the law isn't being applied strictly enough"

    I'm not trying to knock anyone by saying that - it's just that the situation is not unique to the electrical contracting industry; I've seen it time and time again in the pest control industry too. I've come to accept that's it's just human nature and the real problem is that people don't know what they don't know - until they've been exposed to it.

    Ultimately, you have to ask whether the law is appropriate, and I'd like to quietly suggest you might well realise the law is appropriate once you've got your IE ticket under your belt.

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  7. #25
    Email problem 123's Avatar
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    "I've always been amazed at how the crowd that says "the law is preventing me from earning a living" change their tune when they actually meet the requirements of the law. It doesn't take long before the very same people are going "the law isn't being applied strictly enough"
    True words spoken truthfully.

    Ultimately, you have to ask whether the law is appropriate, and I'd like to quietly suggest you might well realise the law is appropriate once you've got your IE ticket under your belt.
    Thing is, I am on the wrong side of forty, staring 50 smack in the face
    I cannot see myself attending classes and writing exams at this stage. and still support my family at the same time. (No work, No Food).

    which means you can be employed by a registered company and work on any electrical installation...provided the installation is designed an monitored and inspected by the correctly qualified person.
    That is exactly what I would like to see being tested in a court. The "WORK" part of the equation. The regulations should be in place to ensure that the WORK that was done is according to SANS 10142-1. The correctly accredited person who inspects the job should ensure that the work was done according to such standards. Who is not necessarily the person who has done the job. Many inspections which is done is on work done, NOT by the person inspecting it, but he still issues a CoC if all is according to sans 10142.

    So, if I understand it correctly, the accredited person cannot issue a CoC because he did not do, or supervise (control) all the work done on the installation! So what now? You get called out to issue a CoC on an installation, you did not do the work yourself or controlled/supervised the person who did it, how on earth can you legally issue the CoC?

    The "only registered persons can work on an installation" part will put many people out of a job, something they might not take too quietly.

  8. #26
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    There is a difference between doing all the work and all the work being done under the general supervision...
    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    Thing is, I am on the wrong side of forty, staring 50 smack in the face
    I don't understand the problem. The brain doesn't normally go until much later

    Like so many things, when the motivation is there the obstacles disappear.

  9. #27
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    The COC allows for the guy who specified the work, tested the work, the main contracting company who hired the guy to test the work, did the work, bought the spares etc.....

    If you didn't do the actual installation or design/spec the job, than those sections of the COC remains blank, you just do an honest test on the installation to make sure its safe. So, the COC allows you not to have done the work, just test it after the fact.
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Should an electricity supplier be connecting a new installation based on a "test only" COC?

  11. #29
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    Well.......I guess it depends who wrote the COC?

    I open every socket outlet, every light switch, every joint box, I do climb in the roof and inspect all the joints/geyser hookup/isolator, open the DB and do insulation test, loop impedence, PSCC, resistance test, continuity, E/L test etc............

    I Fill in a checksheet I made that checks all the major points in the book, including things like colour coding, wire to CB sizing, labelling etc.

    On this basis I would say that the guy who does the test knows the installation (apart from hidden things), and the supplier could most probably, plus minus, almost, connect on this basis .
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

  12. #30
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    you asked a retorical question right?.......I missed it
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

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