Who may work on an electrical installation?

[Jacques#1]

I'll tell you what the problem is......

Everyone is an electrician!!!!!!!!

An example: I quoted a guy a few years back R200 to connect his stove for him (travelling to PTA from Kempton). This is really a good price as I could hear he is an elderly chap, and my fuel would cost me R?? (at the time). He said I am crazy as it is simply pushing three wires into a connector block with a piece of pipe etc..... he'll rather do it himself.

A better example? A guy hires backyard electricians do rewire his house. Why? Because they are cheaper, and they install rubbish. For the next year after the installation I had to go back to sort problems out. I would assist him with the specific problem ONLY, not allowed to touch anything else, this would cost him money. And as luck would have, after a period of time the next item/poor workmanship packed up.

Thing is, if you talk to guys they'll tell you that they do their own work, they don't need any electrician to connect a few simple wires, and if they really need a guy they get one off the street as he is dirt cheap. Once they move house and ask for a COC and get a quote for R20k+ because the entire installation is rubbish, they want to argue, kick and scream!! They then get the one or two bad apples you guys are referring to who sit in their bakkies and write the COC and the problem moves on. The next owner thinks all electricians are bad.

Sorry for carrying on, sore point, I am an electrician, but not one of "these electricians" people refer to. If you buy scrap expect scrap........and ask the guy for some reference on his qualification if you want, if it meant I can get more work, I would print mine on T-shirts!!!!

[Dave A]

I'll tell you what the problem is......

Everyone is an electrician!!!!!!!!

You're right, but you're only half-way there. The real problem is the real electrician can't compete with the so-called "electrician." The regulatory framework that has been put in place (officially to ensure quality but more realistically supported as a form of protectionism) is ultimately handicapping the legal contractor.

For example, 20%+ of payroll goes to "indirect benefits" as a result of the regulatory environment of the electrical contracting industry that these cowboys aren't paying. This is serious, as that extra labour cost cascades into every activity that falls under unbillable hours too. And you can only recover it by increasing your labour rate and material mark-up. By the time you're finished, the legit operator is probably functioning at a 30% disadvantage.

I've heard electrician after electrian (real ones) bemoaning that plumbers make more than electricians. This is the main reason why! Plumbers aren't competing against the "unqualified" and incompetent with a major financial millstone around their necks.

And for the most part consumers don't care about your papers and qualifications, or whether your employees are on a pension plan. As long as the electricity flows and everything works, in their eyes there's nothing wrong with the installation.

[Jacques#1]

That also makes sense.....

[murdock]

every labourer i employ is an electrician or so they say they are and wants to be paid accordingly...top rates...real qualification are hard to come by...copies of certificates are as bad as the work they do...

the one fellas certificates had all the same dates...borders where exactly the same which made me curious.

all i do is ask them to do a ka rating calculation for a single phase complex...eeeeish...never done that before...only tube and wiring and dbs...and as far as they are concerned thats makes them qualified electricians.

even a white youngster...so called electrician i employed was fired within a couple of weeks...he must have worked in his time supervising electrical cable pulling gangs...he was clueless when it came to practical work.

[123]

Hi Guys, glad i found this thread. Does this mean that a qualified electrician (1987) like myself are not allowed to do electrical work at any installation? Eg am I allowed to go out to a customer and do faultfinding on the control circuit of his star delta starter? Or install a new 4core cable?

As I read this EIR2009 I guess I am not allowed to do any electrical work, although I am a qualified electrician?

ps I only registered as a SPT to issue the odd Coc on residential houses. But now it seems to me that I am not allowed to work as an electrician, which is the only trade I have. Or does my trade means zero at this stage?

[murdock]

dont worry 123...i have been in this electrical industry for 27 years and i am just as confused...where you are lucky is there is no control over the industry so you can do what ever blows your hair back...just dont get caught...which is highly unlikely because the dept of labour doesnt have any mapower to carry out inspection so they have handed the resposibility over to the AIA who from my little experience with them are just as crooked as the contractors themselves...and in kzn there isnt even an AIA so they hand over the resposiblily to brian bilton form the eca...who look after the interest of the contractor so you would be ok...and brians attitude seems to be...what is all the fuss about from the last report i handed to him.

[123]

Spoke to a guy Pieter Loubscher at DOL, 012 309 4682 (Direct Line).

He told me that although I am a qualified electrician, I am not allowed to work on anything else except single phase systems, I have to work under supervision of an IE or MIE for anything else.

Apparently the term "qualified electrician" tested and passed at Olifantsfontein means nothing. The fact that I have been tested, and passed on, three phase systems, installation work, wiring and faultfinding, transformers (also three phase) means buckall.

As there is now way I will work "under" anyone except my customer, he basically denied me the right to work for myself and told me that what I am doing (to work) is illegal.

I cannot wait to see when this will end up in a constitutional court or something. You cannot create a law that is unconstitutional and the same law ensures that if i am a qualified electrician, i can do electrical work.

or am i missing something?

By the way, i was told exactly the same story by the ECB, and they even quoted the IER2009.

[murdock]

you must be taking about the new law everyone is talking about where you have to monitor the installation from day one otherwise you are not allowed to sign it over...honestly do you think they wll ever be able to enforce this law...lets get real.

dave will have to close his electrical side of his bussines down because how on this earth will you be able to do COC when the property is sold if you didnt monitor the installation.

the next problem is where do they plan on finding all these IE and MIE to monitor all the contruction work from the beginning.

they dont have the manpower to monitor electrical industry....so who is gona police it the AIA...they dont even have a registered AIA in KZN.

what they gona do drop the pass rate to 10 % so that more people can become MIEs?

this industry just gets more pathetic by the day

i would like to see a response from Pieter Loubsher how they plan on moving forward with this industry.

I spoke to chris greager and even he feel helpless and he is the national director for the ECA SA.

[Jacques#1]

Spoke to a guy Pieter Loubscher at DOL, 012 309 4682 (Direct Line).

He told me that although I am a qualified electrician, I am not allowed to work on anything else except single phase systems, I have to work under supervision of an IE or MIE for anything else.

I thnk he may have misunderstood you. If you are a qualified electrician who qualified @ Olifants tested on 3 phase then you are not a single phase tester, but an "installation" electrician (IE)......you can work on 3 phase just not on hazardous areas (MIE), and you can monitor a single phase tester.

Maybe I am missing something reading these threads, but as far as I know, you register at the ECB as an electrical contractor and thats it. A contractor must be monitored by someone who is a specialist in his field which would be the qualified guy...i.e. you. You are now 100% legal. To issue a COC you register at the ECB as an installation electrician?? and thats it? What did I miss.....

[Jacques#1]

you must be taking about the new law everyone is talking about where you have to monitor the installation from day one otherwise you are not allowed to sign it over...honestly do you think they wll ever be able to enforce this law...lets get real.

I agree with you thats gonna be a headache, but I try to understand where they are coming from. I did fault finding on a site a while back which was wired by a guy (qualified) with his team. I tried to figure out why the lights was not working, and.........they never pulled the wire lying in the roof on top of the db down the conduit and wired it up. I was not surprised.

I disagree with them that they require you to be on site 100% of the time. Doing conduit or wiring work labourers/semi skilled guys can still mess up, but they won't endanger someones life. As long as the electrician (the qualified guy) does all the connections and or inspects the connections before the boxes are closed up. You can tell if the job is right by looking at the connections....wire size, colour, wires vs. installed equipment etc.

The OHS Act supercedes any other acts where safety is concerned. In the OHS ACT you can make someone else i.e. the qualified electrician responsible for what happens on site (given you follow the rules)