Its constitutional to have a blacks only policy?

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Perhaps the biggest draw back and I refer particulalry to some of Marq posts is the practice of using EE as a cover or excuse. Just as there are barriers from a white perspective I believe that there are barriers being created by Black people. White people are prejudiced in varying degrees based on 100 years of past history and black people have a feeling that they must revenge the past inequaliites. It si a difficult balance to strike and I do not believe it is possible. America still ahs problems with their AA policies and practices. We are seeing the same circle. Black person gets advanteged, white person feels aggrieved and becomes angry towards balck etc, etc.
The original BEE had the same results. Someone is appointed to some big position. Is not qualified the denied white people say see told you so and the circle goes around.
Where the SAPS is looking like falling short is the practice of not appointing. i want to once again re-iterate that no act allows for a non exclusionary policy. The SAPS decisions to not appoint some one becuase the only available person is white is a non exclusionery one. The case is certainly based on this, there was no one qualified, otehr tahn Barnard, so the SPAS did not appoint anyone, that is exclusionery. Had some one else been appointed and the appointment defended with the EE policy it might have had more substance.
The importance of this case is the challenging of a company's EE policy. The hiding behind the policy, which is what the SAP seem to be doing, could be the undoing. Just because a policy exists or a rule exists does not make it lawful.

[Dave A]

I definitely agree.

Look, there is no doubt we've got to take extra measures so that the previously disadvantaged can catch up and assume their rightful place. I would hope no-one objects to a balanced society, and in fact hope people actively support us getting to that point.

But in the same breath we can't be just chucking talent and ability to one side to achieve this. The original thinking behind affirmative action is we would increase balance by expanding on top of what was in place already. To expect balance to be achieved by purely "expanding the market" was perhaps wishful thinking, but the greater the expansion, the less the pain.

The question comes - are we seeing this expansion at all? In some areas we seem to be losing skills that are not even being replaced, let alone seeing the pool expanded on.

[BBBEE_CompSpec]

COSATU shocked at employment equity findings

The Congress of South African Trade Unions is disgusted at the findings of the 2008/2009 report of the Commission for Employment Equality (CEE), which showed that white men still occupy 61% of all top management positions.

48% of all those recruited at this level and 45% of all employees promoted to this top level are also white males, while the equivalent figures for black men are 10% in top management positions, 13% of those recruited and 13% of those promoted to this level.
Indian men represented 5% and coloured men 4%, while white women represented 12%, black women just less than 4%, and Indian and coloured women each just more than 1%.

This is despite the fact that in government the picture is very different. There 61% in top management are black, 12% coloured, 5% Indian, 21% white and under 1% foreigners. Although that still falls short of the target of matching the demographics of the country, the government is making good progress.

On the other hand if you take the private sector alone, virtually no progress has been achieved. White people hold 74% of the top positions, followed by black people with 13%, Indians with just less than 6%, coloureds with 5% and foreigners accounting for about 3%.

This is a shocking indictment of the private sector, which has done virtually nothing to transform the demographic structure inherited from apartheid.

The report totally demolishes the argument that black economic empowerment is now redundant because we now live in an equitable non-racial society and that BEE and affirmative action are ‘anti-white’. On the contrary we still live in a society in which wealth and power remains heavily biased in favour of the white minority.

The federation agrees with the CEE Chairperson, Jimmy Manyi, that the government's approach of persuasion was not having the desired effect, that black and coloured people were bearing the brunt of it, and that the present law “is very forgiving”.

We welcome his statement that “the department and the commission are going to take a much less conciliatory view”, that “those who are not playing ball we will name and shame” and that there are going to be a lot more prosecutions.

His report powerfully reinforces COSATU’s view that BEE is as necessary as ever, and the federation backs the Department of Labour’s proposed amendment to the Employment Equality Act which would penalise companies not abiding by racial diversification in the workplace.

COSATU concurs with Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana’s opinion that to remove legislation dealing with the lack of racial diversity - a legacy of apartheid - was tantamount to "throwing away the Constitution" and that “previously disadvantaged people would soon get frustrated with extending an olive branch to people who had formerly oppressed them during the violent apartheid era.

The minister spoke of an “impending revolution” and warned employers "that the revolution will be a revolution of all black people".

COSATU will back to the hilt attempts to enforce the existing legislation but will also continue to argue for a far broader form of BEE which benefits the majority of the formerly disadvantaged and not just a small elite minority. Much more needs to be done to empower the workers and to establish and sustain worker and community co-operatives.

[tec0]

I am sorry but no. Despite the numbers one must consider wealth. When you look at our government structure you see that government is extending loans to particular race groups and totally deny access to other race groups. These loans only have to be paid back within the next 3 years.

The loans are used to create a foundation for business creation and these businesses must be favoured when it comes to vendors and contract allocation. Thus the free enterprise system itself becomes moderated and controlled by government.

The second reason why contractors are basically “white� orientated is because it is the only way to generate an income. Permanent jobs at Telkom or Eskom are none existent and the same was true with our military system and is focused on the Caucasian groups.

The mining groups is are external assets and cannot be counted because the owners like Anglo American has a basic admin structure that is local however the upper management structure is located in America. Also little to no training is extended to South Africans “I stand to be corrected�

Lastly one must understand that government has basically manipulated existing structures and created laws to facilitate there need to empower. It is of note that there is not a single “new� job creation inactive that materialized or worked successfully. Despite the mentioned numbers of successful endeavours done by government one must look at the failure rate and the costs that were involved.

All of this mentioned there is a second more concerning problem. When you look at job creation the labour broker is becoming the alternative system thus a hidden tax on the people that use labour brokers to get work. This system is really unacceptable and must be eliminated because the citizen must now pay both the labour broker and the government just because she or he is working.

The fact is we are burdened to the point where jobs are becoming inaccessible and this will lead to future recessions that will quantify within the next 5 years. If jobs are to become inaccessible, the TAX ratio will diminish to the point where government will be unable to generate money. It is a self-defeating system and by its nature there will be no future for all races involved.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Perhaps it is an indictment of the private sector BUT the private sector reports to shareholders and IS the economy. Government is not a business, though it should be, there in board no accountability and they start with budgets that are negative anyway so underperforming and shareholder value are not criterie now are they?

[tec0]

Despite all arguments South Africa is facing a total skills loss within the next 5 years. No matter what training system is emplaced it will not be able to function due to corruption and funding. So what is wrong with the Mining Community, Steel Manufacturing Community, Eskom, Telkom, and Government?

I know for a fact that power-players are forcing people to work for less money because of the economic instability factor. Still skills development bodies will only accept applicants that is sponsored by companies and mining groups. They will NOT allow individuals to do their trade. “To my knowledge this is still true to this day.�

I must also mention that skills development programs that are sponsored by Government remains race based... So equality is a commercial fallacy and exploitation from the company’s side is clearly visible to every single employee! Now how can there be a future?

The answer is simple; I predict that we will see more outsourcing to the point where all high paying jobs will be contracted-out to other countries. Again this will reflect negatively on our economy thus I cannot see the upside of this system but this IS the system that is enforced right now and we can only wonder what the outcome will be...

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

News out on this case is that the Captain has one the case and been re-instated retrospectively with back pay in her new position.