Understanding incentive

[Dave A]

Fact is our survival was based on “everyone doing there bit�

Fact is survival was being able to run away from the T. Rex faster than someone else in the group.

[IanF]

Fact is socialism can and will work the prove is in our history before all the death and wars.

Here are some good quotes.“For socialists, not just the wealth, but the guilt, must be redistributed�
“All socialism involves slavery�
“Socialism: nothing more than the theory that the slave is always more virtuous than his master�
Teco normally I ignore rantings like yours but I googled a few quotes which may give you insight into the consequences of socialism.

[Dave A]

The funny part in all of this is in a way I'm supportive of some aspects of socialism - particularly the idea of helping those who need help in their time of need.

However, I think that assistance needs to be conditional:

• The person needing help is already trying his/her best to help them self
• The assistance isn't a handicap on the helper
• The assistance is a privilege, not a right
• The assistance is temporary, not permanent
• The system still rewards performance.

Progress is dependent on the exceptional - make sure that the exceptional receives its reward.

[tec0]

Why are there slaves to start with? Right now this argument is pointless however it is worth mentioning that technology and recourses are available to us. But if I may point out to you that over 93% of the Worlds wealth is owned by less than 1% of the world’s population.

So basically you and your businesses are owned by someone else. Now you may ask; what is the significance of this phenomena. I answer; it is because we are slaves to this 1%. You, your children will be slaves to them, and when you look at the local degradation of law, schooling and health THIS picture gets a bit bigger. Now if you would put your ego aside and realize that what I am saying IS true you will see why this topic is so important to me.

Now you will say; yes but, what you are suggesting is the same thing! I will answer again; No... If all of us have a right to a job a right to money and a right to health and schooling! Things will not be the same. The wealth of the people will be used for the people. Right now the wealth is used by this 1% of wealthy people for their own pleasures.

You and your children are not important to them so they will leave them to die. You live in South Africa you know that this is true because just look around Africa and you will see that Africa is a real hellhole.

[tec0]

Teco normally I ignore rantings like yours

I can also Google facts and plaster it against a wall but I actually have “original thoughts�. I have lost it all, when it comes to my finances, my investments and ventures. I know how it feels to have nothing.

But I am thankful for that, because it made me sensitive to the “Human Condition� Now you can Google it, you can think about it. You can criticise me and ridicule me all you want. But you will never ever know what I am on about. Simply because you can’t feel it...

Now I am not saying you are a bad person. I am not judging you and clearly as you have stated you normally ignore this type of thing so I will leave it there. But I shall be damned, before I accept that this world is what it is. I can’t do anything about it, that is true. But, that doesn’t mean I have to accept it...

[carm]

In cave men days there was rankings. There were leaders maybe called chiefs, There were hunters, childminders, teachers, watchmen,cooks. What makes you think there was no social standards in history? You cant tell me in thier tribes there was no ranking. lets move on to another time in history. There were kings and nobles, horsemen, carpenters. where did the idea come from? It must have come from history. It was a good formula and thus carried through the ages. in business and family we carry it through. it is a good formula. It does go wrong and always will go wrong because of man's will to be better and bigger. And this is where nature and life come in. for every action there is a reaction. Look at nature when a species becomes to big nature plays a role in scaling it down. When one becomes too greedy, life has a way of scaling it down. Jealousy of the inferior takes over and they plot ways to make things fair and equal.

It is human nature to want what others have. Look at children- 2 children at creche playing with toys, very young just learnt to talk. one child has a toy that gives him so much joy, the other child sees the joy he is getting from that toy, child 2 wants that toy. Now each child is different one child may fight and another may cry, Either way they will plot to get that toy. Children are not taught this. It is in our nature.

Socilism can not work it is not in our human nature.

[IanF]

Teco
I agree lets not make this personal. What I see coming out of this debate is most people want to be compassionate. Then we are reminded of greed, sometimes greed produces evil and sometimes it produces innovation for the greater good.
My problem is when compassion becomes institutionalised, which happens in socialism, then the greed factor hits in when people take advantage of it. Examples of this is the child grant, with young girls having babies to get it, then leaving their parents and grandparents to care for the child while they carry on as normal. The next one that gets me is AA and BEE, this causes most of the recipients to be lazy as they know the way it works now is they don't have to be equal to get the job or the business, they only have to be black and can have lesser skills. This then means they don't get the necessary skills and still get the reward. So instead of getting more skilled businesses and workers being nurtured we are getting a lot of people getting rich because they are black. My question is this sustainable?
Anyway this is a great debate.

[tec0]

In the early days of human evolution there were no kings or leaders. Somehow this evolved and it was not for our benefit that is a given. But let us look at what is happening now. Leaders must be neutral and they must be responsible. The invention of BEE and AA shows that our leaders are not neutral in any way.

Secondly, I do feel everyone has a right to life. Now to me the “right to life� is more than just breathing air and eating food. A right to life to me; is the right to have a job, security, health and education. Thus we can all function as humans.

Right now this is not obtainable thus the need for change or perhaps we need to work with a new mindset. Wars are part of human evolution simply because all the stops are removed during wars thus technology can grow.

I do want to see everyone enjoying the benefits of technology but I also want to see the raw human drive to excellence. That primitive will to build and create unhindered by politics and wealth. If not Socialism and Democracy then why not a mixture of the two? Fact is both systems are flawed but both of them have good qualities that can benefit evolution and humankind.

Imagine your child being given every possible chance to excel free of charge. Imagine the world they will create.

[Dave A]

You have got to be kidding me:

Regulations recently circulated by new Education Minister Angie Motsheka for public comment will stop schools from being able to top up teachers' remuneration, except in specific, limited circumstances. This is yet another onslaught on quality schools aimed at bringing all schools down to the level of our worst schools, and it is a manifestation of the continual pursuit of low standards that is the hallmark of Ms Motsheka's trade union background.

The DA has a copy of the regulations and they are available on request.
full story from Politicsweb here

Talk about not understanding incentive. I tend to agree with the DA's Donald Smiles when he predicts:

if you stop allowing these top-up payments, good teachers, who have previously been able to earn something close to what they deserve, will either leave teaching or leave the public sector.

How is this going to improve the standard of education in any way whatsoever?

[tec0]

Dave, This is what I am on about. See fact is the systems we know is failing us regardless of what we call it. Point blank schools are going to be useless soon and that is my argument. You know I have been writing allot about schools and colleges and people not getting an education. I am not trying to prove a point here. But I think this point is made, our education system is facing a total breakdown. Home schooling is going to become the only way to be educated and that is costly!

Any system no matter what we call it will fail if it faces mismanagement.