What do I do?

**Dave A** · 27-Mar-09, 07:02 AM

Good to hear that

**bullfrog** · 27-Mar-09, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by eitai2001

I did sign something that said they would develop to what we agreed upon. I'm hoping the guy will just finish the project if not. They are definitely not getting another cent out of me and maybe I will write off the 50% or so as "graphic Design" costs and keep the images .... although this is far from ideal.

And Bull ... I might need a new hosting company soon

Just one question ... if I move hosting company ... what happens to my SSL ... do I have to buy a new one?

They usually give you a quote with a basic project outline to sign or a quote. This might be enough to make sure you get what you promised, but because these forms with the project details don't always contain specific dates or make provisions for disagreements between the client and the developer, they are easy to get around in some cases. Best is to always have a full contract signed with all clauses needed to protect both parties.

I believe these documents should be standard for any design company. They should have gotten a lawyer to write up a proper contract, which includes completion dates as well as what happens if completion dates aren't met.

I'm always here to help out with hosting

but it seems you came right, which is good

SSL certs can be moved to another host, but in some cases the current hosting company has to actually work with you to get the cert moved. This depends on how their system is set up. So there might be a posibility that you have to get a new one if they don't co-operate.

**garthu** · 27-Mar-09, 10:54 AM

Nice one Itai... sometimes just so much easier to resolve amicably. When i hear the word "court", doesn't make my day...
If amicably fails....

or else just

**mahoonas** · 30-Mar-09, 07:33 AM

I agree with Bullfrog that a contract needs to be signed- that is what I do, but in SA this is a little toothless. For a few thousand rand it is not worth the lawyers fees.

THe best way of finding a reliable builder is to ask a friend, same with websites! There are loads of dodgy "website designers" out there, most of which will just rip you off and laugh at you.

If someone asks for the design fee upfront, then find someone else to deal with (unless it is a really small website). Also, a hosting company is not really the best place to get a website designed- they specialise in hosting, design is totally different. Imagine going car guard on the street wanting to buy a car- car guards look after cars, not sell them and it is about the same for hosting companies.

**eitai2001** · 30-Mar-09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by mahoonas

I agree with Bullfrog that a contract needs to be signed- that is what I do, but in SA this is a little toothless. For a few thousand rand it is not worth the lawyers fees.

THe best way of finding a reliable builder is to ask a friend, same with websites! There are loads of dodgy "website designers" out there, most of which will just rip you off and laugh at you.

If someone asks for the design fee upfront, then find someone else to deal with (unless it is a really small website). Also, a hosting company is not really the best place to get a website designed- they specialise in hosting, design is totally different. Imagine going car guard on the street wanting to buy a car- car guards look after cars, not sell them and it is about the same for hosting companies.

Hi.

Well from my past experience with this company, their service has usually been excellent. Also, they specialise in web design ... they have a team of developers and graphic designers working for them, hence why I chose them in the first place.

Regards

Itai

**twinscythe12332** · 30-Mar-09, 11:21 AM

where is the company based?

**eitai2001** · 30-Mar-09, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by twinscythe12332

where is the company based?

They are a South African company ... but I do not wish to disclose any details of this company ... sorry.

**bullfrog** · 01-Apr-09, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by mahoonas

If someone asks for the design fee upfront, then find someone else to deal with (unless it is a really small website). Also, a hosting company is not really the best place to get a website designed- they specialise in hosting, design is totally different. Imagine going car guard on the street wanting to buy a car- car guards look after cars, not sell them and it is about the same for hosting companies.

This I disagree with. An upront fee is pretty standard practice in web design.

I've had a situation where a client wanted a site designed. I asked 50% upfront and he was happy to pay. He sent me a lot of content for inclusion on his site, but not all the content.

I spent about 75% time that I quoted for making the site. That was adding in all content I had received so far. I waited over a year for this client to send me the rest of the content, he never did and I wrote it off. Hence the site wasn't deemed complete. Had I not charged that 50% deposit, I would have spent 20 hours on a project and gotten no compensation. This hardly seems fair to me. This was before I had a standard contract for web design.

Just remember that web designer/developers need to earn their living to survive too and if a client doesn't send needed content and just plainly refuses to pay because the site was never completed, due to his negligence, what is there to protect the designer?

I understand that there's a lot of dodgy designers out there, in fact I understand that there are a lot of dodgy people out there that will cheat you. It's not limited to design and if you find a reputable company/business/designer to work with, you'll find the 50% thing is pretty standard practice.

You also don't need to get a unique contract done by a lawyer for every client you have. You can get one written and use it for all your design. The small cost of doing this is worth the hassles it will save in future.

As for going to a hosting company for a design, you're generalizing way to much on that front. Why can't a web hosting company have different divisions, like a web design division? Yes sure I run a web hosting business and I would agree I am not fit for web design as I just don't have an artistic bone in my body, but I have a designer for a partner who does some amazing work. He on the other hand isn't as great at the technical stuff like server management or any technical going ons in hosting.

What would put us apart from a company who does only design or a freelance designer? I think it's a great relationship because I'll always be better at the technical stuff and he'll always be better at designing. If anything, I look at this as a strong point.

**mahoonas** · 02-Apr-09, 07:57 AM

well Bullfrog, yes, I am generalising. There are hosting companies that are good at website design but that is the exception- and those that are good at design are like that because they have, as you said, a freelance designer. Some people think that website design and hosting is the same thing which is what I want to dispel. I design websites and I do not for a second pretend to know the intricacies of hosting, I just get a hosting company to do it for me. Knowing the strengths of a business is key to getting good service and I am suggesting that if people want good hosting they go to a hosting company, if they want good website design they should go to a website designer.

A typical flop of great magnitude is when people go to the wrong place for website design- look at Telkom’s “website design” offering: cybertrade. If you want to be shocked google cybertrade and a product, you will be amazed at what Telkom calls a website. Those poor people who are losing business because their website looks like the backend of a hyena. This is my point- Telkom does telecoms well but don’t go to them for websites.

As for the design fee, 50% upfront is reasonable but 100% is not. I have met people whom paid a fat wad of cash for a website and got nothing in return- the designer just disappeared. Would you pay a builder in full before he started?

Anyway, I am generalising and there probably are exceptions but I am still not going to big brand companies who offer web services on the side.

**eitai2001** · 02-Apr-09, 02:05 PM

I agree with what you are saying Mahoonas ... I would never pay 100% up front, but 50% is definitely a reasonable figure ... its almost the industry norm, and they have been a good company to me so far, which is why I used them.

As for an update, spoke to the MD today. He admitted that there was a huge internal communication failure with regards to the site and that they haven't worked with the system before so there was a large learning curve involved. He has assured me that they are redesigning it without the errors now, and has told me he is not going to charge me the other 50% because of all the time delays and issues I have been through with them ... and I think it was very nice of him to do this. I'm just glad this ended with a happy ending, and that I managed to keep my cool last week.
I tend to get really irritated and over react and by then its too late ... its you guys that helped me vent and helped me keep my cool and ended with a happy ending, so thank you to all who responded