Amway/Network 21

[Rob Hepple]

Hi Christine.
Anyone who truly has done due diligence on MLM in general and Amway specifically would know that most of these comments are way off the mark. Any MLM that is restricted in levels or depth is firstly restricted in income and secondly in longevity, whether it is 3,4,6,9 or whatever. Amway has never and never will be restricted in levels. Even if I have, as an example, someone on level 1000, because of the way the business is structured, I will still have some benefit coming through. It goes on forever. As for Network 21, it is the finest networking business and education system on the planet, personally endorsed by Robert Kiyosaki. As for reading in Network 21 we subscribe to a book every month, not just about network marketing but about lifeskills, relationship building etc. Nobody is forced to purchase motivational material and our money is made from consuming products. (of which there are now more than 1000 in South Africa- Australia has, as far as I know, close to 10,000.)
Yes, network marketing is not easy but by the same token starting any new business is not easy. They both require commitment. With Network marketing, specifically Amway, there is no risk. If you feel that after 90 days that the business is not for you, you can get your money back. I have yet to find another MLM with this type of guarantee.
There are a number of Universities in the United states where you can enrol for a degree in Network Marketing. I would suggest, as a starting point in your due diligence, that one of these might help.

[Rob Hepple]

Hi Blurock.
Great idea.

[thanethomson]

There's a fundamental flaw in Network 21's value proposition. See this article I wrote here: http://thanethomson.com/2012/03/28/t...e-proposition/

[Dave A]

When people drop links rather than make a point here, I'm inclined to get a little feisty

So

The first part of their value proposition is fine – it’s the second part that really creeps me out, and my reasoning here is very simple.

It's probably more complex than the business, but let's look at it anyway.

Ask yourself: why is it that you want more time? Most people would answer that they want more time to spend with their loved ones.

Statisticaly most people answer that they want to travel.

But that's cool. You want to spend more time with your loved ones, so let's look at that.

The problem is, for the average person without an extensive personal network (like the average people that attend such meetings as I did on Monday), the only people you really end up signing up are your friends and family.

They, in turn, end up doing the same with their friends and family, and so on

I had 2 friends and one family member sign up, and a bunch of total strangers - some of whom eventually became friends. But if you won't talk to strangers, I guess you're right.

BTW - would you be interested in making some new friends?

(until of course there’s nobody willing left to sign up - but nobody talks about that possibility, they only talk about how this sort of thing has worked so well for the last 50-odd years).

Actually people do - it's just that talking about churn and people quitting and how it means the people who do the work end up getting the reward is probably a bit advanced for an introductory meeting

So if I sign up to this thing, I’m basically taking a cut of my friends’ and family’s grocery bills every month, so that I can get more time to spend time with them? How many of these people still actually have real friends and close family relationships after duping them into signing up for this sort of thing? How would you feel if your friend got you signed up to this thing under the auspices that it would be good for you?

Actually, they were all pretty cool about it.

I would feel used. This is exactly the opposite of what the second part of their value proposition seems to offer, and so, to me, is fundamentally contradictory.

So if that wasn't a problem, is there anything else bugging you?

BTW - how is your current plan to spend more time with your friends and loved ones working out?

[thanethomson]

Thanks Dave. I felt I'd made my point pretty clearly in my blog post and didn't feel like re-typing it here. Apologies for the delayed response - I seem to have missed the e-mail notification of your reply.

My current plan to spend more time with my friends and loved ones is actually working out quite well - I can probably count the number of evenings and weekends I've spent at home by myself in 2012 on my one hand, and I've probably met nearly a hundred new people just this past year (and at the age of 27, I'm not even on Facebook - can you believe it?). This is primarily because I put a high value on real-world relatonships in general, and do my best to plan my work around my relationships, instead of the other way around. I was never really an outgoing person - I was quite withdrawn as a child and had to make a conscious decision in the past few years to value people and relationships (above travelling, by the way).

Also, I'm lucky in that the work I've chosen to do is quite niche, and allows me to charge a premium for my effort. There's something about doing productive work that's in line with who you are that's incredibly empowering and rewarding. Read Erich Fromm's "The Fear of Freedom" (http://www.kalahari.com/books/The-Fe...2/9720602.aspx) to understand my perspective on productive work.

The difference between what I do and what I see Network 21 doing is that I can actually tell you what value I'm helping other people capture, and I capture some of that value with them: win-win.

In Network 21, I see many, many people losing for a very long time, and very few people winning. The few who do win depend heavily on those who don't. This is not sustainable, and morally wrong, in my opinion. To understand my perspective on value and morality, please read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" (http://www.kalahari.com/books/Zen-an.../29092339.aspx) and its sequel "Lila" (http://www.kalahari.com/books/Lila/632/41183978.aspx) by Robert Pirsig. He's probably one of the most forward-thinking modern philosophers, and his ideas are far ahead of their time (he has an IQ of 170, so it's understandable they'd be ahead of their time).

Once you've read those books, i.e. when we have some more common ground, I'd be glad to engage with you again on this matter. I have a feeling that you and I lead very, very different lives at this point in time and so engaging with you further in our current, very distinct contexts will not be fruitful.

[Dave A]

The few who do win depend heavily on those who don't. This is not sustainable, and morally wrong, in my opinion.

A bit like being of the opinion that the world is flat. I regret track record clearly shows it's sustainable

Once you've read those books, i.e. when we have some more common ground...

I suspect we share more common ground than you think. Our lack of common ground appears to be on N21 and Amway experience. I've been in it, done it, and moved on already. I gather you haven't. And seeing as Amway and N21 is what this discussion is about, there's only one way we can fix that

My current plan to spend more time with my friends and loved ones is actually working out quite well

Chuffed to hear that

I can probably count the number of evenings and weekends I've spent at home by myself in 2012 on my one hand, and I've probably met nearly a hundred new people just this past year

Gee - you'd be great at this business
Got any names for me of people interested in making some serious money?

We done then? Not for you right now?
Oh well - let me be off to find and make a winner. Thanks for your time.

NEXT!

And opportunity starts walking out the door

---

ps. try not to take this and my previous post too seriously - at least 80% of it is pretty standard N21 style responses to stuff that comes up all the time.
Unfortunately it is also true.

[SKeast]

HI, If you are interested in working in the MLM industry we have a new opportunity with a company called ...

[Dave A]

After reviewing the entire contents of this thread, I believe it a disservice to allow the hijack attempts trying to draw attention to new MLM programs to continue (only two so far, but they're effectively off-topic). I have accordingly moved them to a more appropriate thread.

[abbacount]

Hi Dave,
I have joined AMWAY and NETWORK 21 due to the fact that the person introducing the system to me and my wife were very convincing. We have now progressed to the "Leadersclub" status and are involved in trying to grow our business seeing that we are an "IBO"(Independent Business Owner). The only thing that gets to me is the number of meeting sthat one has to attend. Every quarter they have a weekend seminar which costs R750 per person. Mostly they have individuals being paraded rendering testimonials on how they have changed their lives and are financially independent. There is various other meetings that you have to attend which cost ranges from R20 - R800 which i am now finding to be exorbitant. Also one has to buy motivational books from Network 21 but i have found the same book R 55 cheaper at the CNA. I would like to ask the other members who have been involved in this particular MLM business to share their experiences with me!

[Dave A]

*bump* (just moved the above post to this thread)