Competence.

**murdock** · 16-Sep-10, 07:23 AM

andy looking smart with the tie but dave still looks smarter with the bow tie

**AndyD** · 16-Sep-10, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by adrianh

Ooookkk, I think that the South African youth are lazy and stupid and I also think that the majority of adults are lazy and stupid.

Generalisations and stereotypes are not a credible foundation for debating a point.

Originally Posted by adrianh

How do you teach a man to fish if he wants a golden fishing pole, for you to bait the hook and then pull in the fish for him when it bites (while that same man is peeing in the river and selling the fishing tackle on the sly)

Humorously packaged generalisations and stereotypes are also not a credible foundation for debating a point.

Originally Posted by adrianh

In my experience the generalization holds true for the majority. Only people who are stupid and lazy dance around the streets when they should be teaching, nursing or learning.

I have no sympathy for any of them, if the teachers don't want to teach, and the students don't want to learn, that's fine.

If the young people don't want to go to college and get N1 or N6 and are to lazy to be apprentices, then that's fine too.

Don't blame the companies for the fact that the youth are too lazy to learn.

At no time did I blame the companies. My opinion was.
If apprentices are leaving en mass after qualifying then the whole system is unsustainable.

I have to say Adrian that I'm not keen on your posting tone and style. If you want sweeping statements to hold water as an argument or valid point then quote or make a linked citation to reliable or credible sources to back them up. If you don't then they're just empty stereotypes which isn't adding anything constructive and some of which might by seen as downright inflammatory.

**Dave A** · 16-Sep-10, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by adrianh

Fair enough, but what is the problem then?

People butting heads for the wrong reasons

I'm having one helluva day - try not to kill each other before I get back

**adrianh** · 16-Sep-10, 04:33 PM

I have to say Adrian that I'm not keen on your posting tone and style.

And I should care - why? Remember, the majority fought for freedom of speech...the right to wave plackards and toi toi...

If you want sweeping statements to hold water as an argument or valid point then quote or make a linked citation to reliable or credible sources to back them up.

Good one...but I doubt that you take yourself seriously on this one.

If you don't then they're just empty stereotypes which isn't adding anything constructive and some of which might by seen as downright inflammatory.

Define "Constructive" - is the word defined as "Something that agrees with AndyD's view"

Well being inflammatory is also fine by me - I'm only following the example of such fine leaders as Julius Malema, Cosatu, Nehawu and lets not forget NUM. Then don't forget the one's who ran around singing "Shoot the Boer"

Nee wat ou broer, ek is nie gepla nie, my views are what they are, agree with them, don't agree with them, I don't really care one way or another. I'm long past the great happy happy, ra ra of 'The New South Africa"

**AndyD** · 16-Sep-10, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by adrianh

Well being inflammatory is also fine by me - I'm only following the example of such fine leaders as Julius Malema, Cosatu, Nehawu and lets not forget NUM. Then don't forget the one's who ran around singing "Shoot the Boer"

Wees nie afgunstig op 'n man van geweld en verkies geeneen van sy weÃ« nie.

**adrianh** · 16-Sep-10, 05:14 PM

Ek lees net die "Flying Spaghetti Monster Commandments" en daar praat hulle net oor "Pastafaria" en glad nie oor slim "out of context quotes"

**tec0** · 16-Sep-10, 09:43 PM

Right, first let us look at what is really happening. The economy are build on industry both Industrial and commercial. Secondly we cannot deny the fact that massif amounts of money disappear and there is almost no accountability.

Yes it is true, it is easier to take mass action and demand things that are really a problem between employer and employee. Miss, Missis and Mister Public do not have control over Students, Pay increase or if the people are actually getting paid or not.

That problem is strictly between Administration, government and teacher student relations. Mass action in its current form targeted Miss, Missis and Mister Public by denying Healthcare, Sanitation, Municipal services and Protection. Thus Miss Missis and Mister Public must now deal with no services. But Miss Missis and Mister Public paid for those services every month?

The question now is reasonability. Is it reasonable to keep the paying Public responsible for everyoneâ€™s mistakes? Is it not true that the Public is the direct target?

Now motivation comes to mind: Yes you must be grateful for work but R800 a month will not allow for the basics like; Sanitation, Municipal services and Protection. Nor can it contribute to a retirement fund. So not being motivated is probably more relevant then saying people are lazy. Do the math yourself... Fact if your maximum income is R800 you will have big troubles when you turn 65 years of age.

Also consider that an overwhelming number of South Africans cannot afford to live in their own country.

So it is simply not worth it. So again; what is the problem? The problem is not Miss Missis and Mister Public they pay their taxes, they support government and pay for their services. But what about all that money, literally millions that go missing?

Can that money not pay for Fabrication facilities, healthcare facilities and training facilities? So yes sometimes it is difficult to imagine that mass action is NOT the answer, it is disruptive but if you consider the limited successes, then one my think it is pointless?

Basically we are dealing with new structures that are failing every aspect of our lives? So perhaps one must consider changing those structures?

See competence starts with Structure, ability and development. So start with the systems responsible for competence and you will have your change.

The truth is if you make it impossible for people to survive then you must consider the consequences.