Do we really need SEO services?

**kernel32** · 11-Jul-08, 07:41 AM

That's why I love this place. So much feedback from many experienced people. Thanks to all of you!

**stephanfx** · 15-Jul-08, 10:32 PM

I did not have real time to read everyones posts but merely scanned through most. I think that if you are not going to do seo yourself, but still expect results, you should pay, and then, yes, there is room for paid seo. There are tons of articles on free seo, so do a quick search and I am sure you will find something to do with your site. As I am sure was stated, if you want any return on your website, you will do well to spend at least some time on seo.

**Marq** · 17-Jul-08, 10:17 AM

So much feedback from many experienced people.

OK - So what is the answer? Can one assume this was a successful poll with 6 answers out of a potential 2000? Why did the members of this forum not take part?

Could I also ask - what sort of price should one expect to pay for seo? Obviously there are a few scenarios here and how long is a piece string, but assuming I have just spent my life savings on building a new website to sell my fancy widgets - I have no real idea on the real potential of the sales, other than based on market research (ok my kids and brother-in-law think its a shit hot idea) it appears that it will be a great hit and is worth spending some of the banks money on it. Now I need to know - how much should I invest in SEO marketing and how long does it take usually to know whether this is a good idea or not?

**Dave A** · 17-Jul-08, 11:52 AM

Any chance of doing a pilot project before you bet the bank?

Originally Posted by Marq

Can one assume this was a successful poll with 6 answers out of a potential 2000? Why did the members of this forum not take part?

I think it was missing an option - Huh? What is SEO?
Two years ago, I'd never even heard of it, let alone have any kind of understanding as to its importance when it comes to online business.

**Chatmaster** · 17-Jul-08, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Marq

Now I need to know - how much should I invest in SEO marketing and how long does it take usually to know whether this is a good idea or not?

Marq, this is not an easy question to answer. If the market you are targeting is competitive (which only an SEO Specialist can determine) I would seriously suggest making use of a reputable SEO. I again need to emphasize that it is all about ROI at the end of the day. SEO is a long term project for a new site, therefore it will require a big budget. It will not make you money from day one. However it can roll you in traffic after 12-24 months. The issue is though that SEO is a continues process. Rather get proper SEO recommendations and SEO plan on your site, ensure you start working on your SEO onpage factors and a frequent content update policy in place and utilize other acquisition methods that will provide you with presence and traffic now. E.g. SMM, Viral Marketing, Editorial Marketing etc. Combined with your SEO plan, these acquisition methods can actually benefit your long term SEO plan if applied correctly.

**Marq** · 18-Jul-08, 12:18 PM

Just trying to understand this animal a bit more......I understand the business basics and obviously its about the returns and seeing some incoming traffic and sales etc.

Not knowing how SEO guys operate and not having had any detailed discussion on the processes - I was just wondering what that a ballpark price would be, and would there be a one off upfront setup cost or is it an ongoing, short term, long term contractual thing. What would I expect to see in an SEO contract?

So now (assuming) we are going to pay SEO marketing costs upfront for say a minimum of 12 months, maybe 24 before we see results? Most business would crash before that without a decent marketing result, so why would one go this route and what guarantees can an SEO company offer (besides references) to ensure that they are not seen as con job. Is there a payment method on say when I get a million hits in a month, we have gauged a success story?

Would it be correct to assume that all SEO activities and, no matter which company or person is doing them, would be similar or even the same no matter what the market or site is? So any increased variance in prices would be for reputation. Or what would make one guy more successful than the next?

And then I was wondering if there is this 'list' of things that one can do as mentioned by Roelof (thanks for that) - is there a price for each one and if so, and one had to choose to say reduce the overall price, which would be the most effective value for money type items.

I had better stop thinking about this as the questions are just getting more and more. Perhaps there is a site that tackles all of this that someone could point me to?

**Chatmaster** · 22-Jul-08, 12:54 AM

Hi Marq, sorry I only reply now, but I will try my best to answer.

I normally run an SEO campaign at a 6 month interval. However that is me. Some SEO companies will operate differently and you might even find some that operate on a month to month basis (This is not recommended though). Generally SEO campaigns will indicate their success only after 6 months. On a site that has been around for a while the results can be instantaneous or over a shorter period, but I have seen it many times over that the real results start showing at month 5 and 6.

You are absolutely right, but I want to emphasize once again that SEO is only one of many marketing avenues that should be utilized with an online business. I wouldn't rely solely on it's success and besides it's success depends on the SEO company you use and that can put a large amount of risk on you. With a brand new site I seriously recommend that you pay an SEO or even an online marketer once to help you compile a marketing plan and to ensure that the basic SEO is done correctly. Thereafter rather invest in other marketing methods to acquire new business. Furthermore, what is very important is to ensure that your site not only acquire traffic but also convert and retain, therefore going with an experienced online marketer is your safest bet, but always include SEO as part of your plan. With an older domain or a domain name change to a new one SEO is of much greater importance. Redesign of an existing site must require the consultation of a SEO as radical changes to a website design will definitely hurt you.

Would it be correct to assume that all SEO activities and, no matter which company or person is doing them, would be similar or even the same no matter what the market or site is? So any increased variance in prices would be for reputation. Or what would make one guy more successful than the next?

Many of us utilize different techniques, SEO is not an exact science therefore the techniques are different. A further point that differentiate SEO's are the fields they work in, for example, you will find that many SEO companies will refuse to do SEO for industries such as Online gambling and Pharmaceutical, as they simply can't compete at that level. Some of them will say that it is a moral issue but I know for a fact that a large amount of SEO companies avoid competitive industries because they are afraid to fail. I have also learned through the years that many reputable "expensive" SEO's are perception managers, so getting the right people to do the job can be complicated.

Marq, to be completely honest with you. A list of things depends on your competition and target market. If my target market was South African or global, I would invest money on an initial consultation with an online marketer to help me setup a marketing plan and give me an initial SEO report. The marketing plan will include Acquisition methods, conversion strategies (Call to action, unique selling points etc.) and retention techniques that will consist out of Email marketing, Viral marketing, advertising, bartering, editorial marketing etc. Before the meeting think about your realistic goals you would like to achieve and target dates. Also look at different scenarios with different budgets to determine what your ROI will be. You can estimate traffic at a conversion ratio of 3% just to be safe. Just an added note to invest some time in establishing a SMO strategy, in other words a strategy that involves some form of data mining for reselling purposes, it can be complicated to implement it at a later stage.

Depending on your competitiveness you will probably pay between R9k and R45k a month for an SEO campaign. I know of companies that pay 10 times that but then again they are established businesses that can afford and have to, in order to compete at their level.

A good copywriter (An absolute must) will cost you in the region of R350-R650/h.

**Chatmaster** · 22-Jul-08, 12:59 AM

Almost forgot. You should also have a separate budget for link building. this budget however will be linked to the competitiveness of your industry.

**Dave A** · 22-Jul-08, 08:15 AM

Roelof, do you think paid link building is safe nowadays?

**Chatmaster** · 22-Jul-08, 09:06 AM

Dave you are right to be skeptical about paid links. Every SEO campaign includes a budget for link building in order to submit sites to paid directories and listings on sites such as Bizcommunity. These are safe links to purchase and also gives some form of exposure. Purchasing backlinks of other sites are not one of the things I do, these are dangerous imo and are easier to detect by SE's due to the high fluctuations of backlinks on these sites.