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Thread: Socket outlets 3 phase - ELU

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    Socket outlets 3 phase - ELU

    Hi
    Be interested to hear what you guys think

    We have a case at a fast food franchise that is wanting a COC – We are not 100% sure on the build date but think it was around 2006
    On inspection we found that no 3 phase kitchen socket outlets have ELU protection

    If we look at the installation as a whole there have been revamps done to general electrical in lights , front of house single phase sockets and possible extra single phase sockets and light circuits , signage added
    We cannot be 100% sure if there has been work done on the “old” 3 phase socket circuits as in extended or moved 3 phase socket or an extra 3 phase socket added (photos attached )

    How do we treat the installation with regards to the missing ELU protection
    Do we say it was done prior and complies or would it need to be brought up to present day standards ?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Platinum Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    Another motivation for fitting an earth leakage is that those particular socket outlets do not appear in 6.7.5.5 as one of those not requiring earth leakage protection.

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    Platinum Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    My previous post dissappeared in which I stated that, personally, I would fit an earth leakage as per the recommendation on pg 158 which reads:

    "It is recommended that earth leakage protection be installed in all circuits that supply socket outlets in existing installations prior to earth leakage becoming compulsory"
    .

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    Been down this road and have a T shirt.

    I was doing maintenance work for a fast food outlet, got a new build, that's where the real fun began.

    Because I was just doing the maintenance work in existing stores, the fact that not one of the stores had ELU connected to any of the 3 phase socket outlets wasn't my problem.

    I started the new build and things went bad really quickly, the tiles they use dont play nicely with SDS bits, you have to spend the money on proper diamond ceramic bits.

    Light fittings had to be ordered from the Cape, I later found out that nobody actually buys the expensive lights from the Cape, but hey I quoted for them, so I fitted them and I must say I am glad I did, they outlast any other brand (more than 2 years).

    Then we got to the kitchen, I thought the silly plug was a joke, all the 3 phase socket outlets are installed directly above the cooker units. You know what happens when steam and electricity mix, yip it doesnt.

    I enquired with people in the know, and bought it to their attention that non of the fast food outlets that I had worked in had ELU connected to the 3 phase outlets.

    I also enquired about the position of the socket outlets, if the oil catches on fire there is no way you can reach across and switch off or pull the plug.

    I was told that it is how the fast food outlets are designed and dont require ELU. I never issued a COC.

    I decided to stop doing work for fast food outlets because of the risk involved. I got a call from the fast company 3 years after I completed the project, they requested the COC. I informed them that due to the design, I could not issue a COC.
    Comments are my opinion, unless regulations are attached to support the comment. This is social media, not a court room.

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    Look carefully at the picture you posted, I do realize the extractor is designed to move sufficient air (steam) that the IP rating shouldn't be a factor, but come on, really.

    Its great that the socket outlet is within arms reach and all that stuff, what happens if the oil catches on fire, how do you switch off?

    I dont think your biggest concern is the date ELU became a requirement.

    I would contact the design engineer for the fast food outlets and get a copy of the document which stats that ELU are not required due to the design at the time of the build, and attach it to your COC.

    I chose not to issue a COC, so unfortunately I dont have a copy of the document.
    Comments are my opinion, unless regulations are attached to support the comment. This is social media, not a court room.

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    Something else you might want to look at, the wiring in the trunking, when you open the trunking in some places they full of oil, if so are the wires rated for that application.
    Comments are my opinion, unless regulations are attached to support the comment. This is social media, not a court room.

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    All the stores we do now a days have ELU on 3 phase sockets - Problem with the older stores that were done before the regulation came out with regards to ELU on 3 phase sockets is, what do you do now as per my original post

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    I got a reply from the person who normally assists me with these kind of technical questions.

    I cannot mention the name of the outlet, but one of the fast food outlets apparently do or did have special exemption from SABS for their appliances, others may not.

    Considering the nuisance tripping that will occur due to the moisture, steam and oil, I could only see many headaches if an ELU is connected.

    I cannot for the life of me understand why weather proof isolators are not installed on a wall in the same room away from the appliance, but hey a much smarter person with a degree might be able to explain.
    Comments are my opinion, unless regulations are attached to support the comment. This is social media, not a court room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isetech View Post
    I got a reply from the person who normally assists me with these kind of technical questions.

    I cannot mention the name of the outlet, but one of the fast food outlets apparently do or did have special exemption from SABS for their appliances, others may not.

    Considering the nuisance tripping that will occur due to the moisture, steam and oil, I could only see many headaches if an ELU is connected.

    I cannot for the life of me understand why weather proof isolators are not installed on a wall in the same room away from the appliance, but hey a much smarter person with a degree might be able to explain.
    I am not aware of any that have exemptions - We have no nuisance tripping but you must put in a ELU per 3 machines
    The reason it was done is so they/staff can change a machine out , put it on the truck back to head office for repair etc - No electrician needed to disconnect - Also helps when they deep clean that they can move equipment out of the way

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Given that the regulation ammendments aren't retrospective, if there's reasonable evidence that the install was done before the earth leakage requirement ammendments and there's no signs of the circuits having been altered since their installation I would say they are exempt.
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