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Thread: Registered contractors and the green card

  1. #11
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    I ask myself this question, if I am already qualified and experienced in AC and DC installations, why would I need to do training for a green card or any other certification?

    If someone said that I have to do a 1 day course to understand the basics of solar PV panel design basics installation. I might still disagree because I have already spent 300 hours watching training videos for Victron equipment.

    Do I believe the green card is a money making racket, in some cases yes. From people who have done the courses, the feedback I have received is that a lot of the material we already know.

    So what do I think we should do about it ? I believe whoever is responsible for making the rules and regs should stand up and do their job, set out guidelines and update the SANS book to include solar PV and not make another separate COC like electric fences.

    I believe training is good for any industry and we as single phase testers, installation electricians and MIE's should be required to collect credits for training. Which would make sure that everyone is up to date with the regulations and amendments to the regs.

  2. #12
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    I agree on the PV green card training.

    I too watched those Victron videos (albeit not all as well life and a kid take a lot of time haha) but I am also getting on site training with a certified victron installer (he is on their website) so I am getting full round trianing and I gautentee the green card course people would not give me better trianing.

    But we do need some industry standard for trianing and I like the CPD idea as it can be self tought.

    Big issue is anyone can buy panels and the likes to do PV, even a DIY camper person.

    So I very good way to sort a lot of this but is impossible is to only sell to certified persons who can install....

    Same goes for fully built DB's at builders...

    But all that is a different conversation.



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  3. #13
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    Everyone is going on about green cards and training, hundreds of installations are being done everyday and I havent heard of any fires or deaths.

    They are so simple they are done DIY by the owners, so what is all the fuss about?

  4. #14
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    There is no control over the electrical industry due to a lack of skills and manpower, who would take on the responsibility of policing the solar industry?

  5. #15
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    100% agree... It's a cowboy world at the moment for sure....



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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isetech View Post
    There is no control over the electrical industry due to a lack of skills and manpower, who would take on the responsibility of policing the solar industry?
    The client/user needs to be aware that there are legal requirements to installing solar - That legal requirement is being registered as an Electrical Contractor .

    It is the users responsibility under the OHSA act to ensure that suitable qualified/registered companies work on there electrical installation

    If we all start educating the client then it should help in sorting it out.

    We have to start somewhere .

    The use of suitable qualified companies should be happening in all walks of life, Plumbers , Gas installers , Electrical , Medical etc - It should be an automatic way of life.

    It starts with each one of us - I cannot be shouting " Use a Registered Electrical Contractor " and then I go use a handyman for my gas installation . The same way I cant complain about Taxi's going through a red robot yet I do the same thing .

  7. #17
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    """......As Graham Clarke, an ECA(SA) member and owner of an electrical contracting company in Gqeberha, observes, “… the statement that solar installers are suppliers of electricity and that the isolator to the AC connect point is the point of control and therefore does not have to be carried out by an Electrical contractor as it is not part of the Electrical Installation is a myth and, if there was any doubt, this has been removed by the Occupational Health and Safety Act and the Electrical Regulations, as well as SANS 10142-1 ED3.01”.

    All electrical contractors must register with the Bargaining Council for the Electrical Industry (SA) and have their employees governed by the applicable terms of service. The Bargaining Council understands this obligation and will enforce the provisions of the Main Collective Agreement and in particular, registration obligations.

    It is illegal to install PV when you are not a registered electrical contractor. You can only qualify to be an Electrical Contractor if you employ an IE or an MIE or you are, yourself, such a person. Registered Electrical Contractors must be registered with the Department of Employment and Labour and the Bargaining Council for the Electrical Industry (SA). These registrations are not voluntary. There is no choice as to the obligation to be so registered. Failure to do so makes one an illegal operator."""



    https://ecasa.co.za/technical/pv-ins...l-contractors/

    THERE APPEARS TO BE SEVERAL PURPOSELY MISLEADING LEGAL ASSUMPTIONS IN THIS ARTICLE.

    http://www.saflii.org/za/legis/consol_reg/eir342/

    https://dvh.law.za/postPDF/ELECTRICA...TALLATIONS.pdf

    https://ecb.org.za/wp-content/upload...Regulation.pdf

    https://ecb.org.za/coc/electricians/

    https://ecb.org.za/coc/downloads/

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACEsterhuizen View Post
    [I]


    https://ecasa.co.za/technical/pv-ins...l-contractors/

    THERE APPEARS TO BE SEVERAL PURPOSELY MISLEADING LEGAL ASSUMPTIONS IN THIS ARTICLE.
    I would be interested to know where you feel the misleading pieces are -

    I read OHSA and clause 6 says I need to register with DOL - I read SANS10142-1 and look at the definitions and it tells me that a person you supplies his own electricity is a consumer and that only a Statutory body or person who agrees to sell electricity to another person is a supplier

    In a Shopping center with PV on the roof the center management will be supplying themselves and therefore a consumer , they will then supply the shop tenant and the center management will be the supplier - Basically under the definitions center management can be both.

    In a residential set up the house owner is a consumer and therefore the PV installation is part of the electrical installation and covered under SANS 10442-1 clause 7.15 and 7.12

    I have pasted what I feel are relevant definitions below and would be interested to hear differently


    OHSA - EIR 2009
    Electrical contractor
    6. (1) No person may do electrical installation work as an electrical contractor unless that person has been registered as an electrical contractor in terms of these Regulations.
    (2)
    Any person who does electrical installation work as an electrical contractor shall register annually in the form of Annexure 3 with the chief inspector or a person appointed by the chief inspector.
    (3)
    An application for registration as referred to in subregulation (2) shall be accompanied by the fee prescribed by regulation 14.


    From SANS 10142-1 Ed3.01
    3.16
    consumer

    person who is supplied (or who is to be supplied) with electricity by a supplier
    (see 3.77); or a person who supplies his own electricity

    3.58
    point of supply

    point at which a supplier supplies electricity to any premises

    3.77
    supplier

    in relation to a particular installation, any local authority (see 3.47), statutory
    body or person who supplies, contracts or agrees to supply, electricity to that
    electrical installation

    3.56
    point of control

    point at which a consumer can, on or in any premises, switch off the electrical
    installation from the electricity supplied from the point of supply


    3.33
    electrical installation

    machinery, in or on any premises, that is used for the transmission of electrical
    energy from a point of control (see 3.56) to a point of consumption
    (see 3.55) anywhere on the premises, including any article that forms part of
    such an installation, irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical
    circuit, but excluding

    a) any machinery of the supplier that is related to the supply of electricity on
    the premises,
    b) any machinery that is used for the transmission of electricity of which the
    voltage does not exceed 50 V, where such electricity is not derived from
    the main supply of a supplier, and
    c) any machinery that transmits electrical energy in telecommunication,
    television or radio circuits



    7.12.7 Additional requirements for photovoltaic (PV) and similar
    installations that provide a supply as an alternative to the main supply
    7.12.7.1 The photovoltaic installation shall comply with SANS 60364-7-712
    and the solar panels shall comply with SANS 61215 (for poly and mono
    crystalline) or SANS 61646 (for thin-film).
    7.12.7.2 The DC component of the installation shall comply with 7.15.
    7.12.7.3 The rated voltage of each circuit shall be clearly indicated at all ends
    of the circuit.
    In the case of combined circuits, every circuit shall be easily identifiable.
    Where single core conductors are used, such conductors for each circuit shall
    be tied together at intervals to ensure identification, unless another suitable
    arrangement is employed.
    7.12.7.4 Precautions regarding parallel operation as prescribed in 7.12.6.1,
    and overcurrent protection as prescribed in 7.12.4.1 shall be provided.
    7.12.7.5 In addition it shall be recognised that the supply from each inverter,
    battery arrangement and PV panel (or identified clustered group), constitutes
    a supply, and requires arrangements similar to point of supply, which shall
    include switch-disconnection arrangements and shall comply with 7.12.5.
    7.12.7.6 If applicable, all exposed conductive parts may require earthing as
    prescribed in 6.12.3.

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  10. #19
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    If I don't have any staff do I have to still register with the NBECI thing ??

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  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylboy View Post
    If I don't have any staff do I have to still register with the NBECI thing ??

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    If you don't have staff , then No -
    I don't know of an electrical contractor doing solar or general installation work that does not employ staff
    It is generally the appliance repair guys that work alone

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