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Thread: The sad state of the electrical industry in SA

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    The sad state of the electrical industry in SA

    We all know about potholes.

    The question is do we fix the potholes, or paint a solid line and employ more police to fine people for swerving to miss the potlholes, then fine them for crossing the solid line?

    Or do we fix the potholes, by creating better training facilties, improve the morale in the industry and offer better suppport for electricians?

    I beleive it is important to police the industry for blantant dispregard to the regs, but I dont believe that is the problem, Most of the inspectors (contractors) who I have engauged with since I have changed my attitude towards non compliant work has made me realise that in most cases the person just doesnt know any better. The training and post training practical experience with a skilled artisan is what is lacking. I have found that some of the youngsters pay attention and want to learn, I have the arrogant fools who just blantantly disregard the regs, I dont even waste my time talking to them, I just hand them over, or the ones who are signing off COC's without even visiting the site, I dont have the time of day to deal with them and feel the DOL should step in and procecute them and set an example.

    People ask what you would do if you won the lotto, I would use the money to pay my monthly bills so that I could spend my day helping youngsters who want to learn and improve their skills.

    Who do you think should be responsible for policing of the industry, the DOL or a private company?

    Do you feel customers should be responsible for their electrical installtion?

    Do you feel the customer should be responsible for the investigation into illegal COC's?

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    I beleive it is important to police the industry for blantant dispregard to the regs, but I dont believe that is the problem, Most of the inspectors (contractors) who I have engauged with since I have changed my attitude towards non compliant work has made me realise that in most cases the person just doesnt know any better.
    I agree policing is important and if policed correctly will automatically ensure that contractors train staff to keep up to date and avoid any potential penalties that could be imposed.


    Who do you think should be responsible for policing of the industry, the DOL or a private company?
    DOL should be doing the policing as custodians of the regulations in the same way that SARS police the Tax laws

    Do you feel customers should be responsible for their electrical installtion?
    The customer should be responsible in the same way that he is responsible for his car or Taxes - He is neither a Mechanic or Accountant but he makes sure he uses the correctly qualified person to ensure that he is not fined .

    Do you feel the customer should be responsible for the investigation into illegal COC's?
    I feel yes - but that the DOL do it as a free service .It could also be a problem but there should be a workable way around this same as traffic laws and tax laws

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    Who is or are the authorised inspection authority.

    What authority do they have over an electrical installation signed over by a IE or MIE.

    Do they have the authority to fine you as a registered elctrical contractor, do they have more power than lets say the DOL, ECA or ECB or a registered elctrical contractor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isetech View Post
    Who is or are the authorised inspection authority.

    What authority do they have over an electrical installation signed over by a IE or MIE.

    Do they have the authority to fine you as a registered elctrical contractor, do they have more power than lets say the DOL, ECA or ECB or a registered elctrical contractor?
    Authorized Inspection Authority ( AIA ) where appointed/legislated by DOL to to inspect electrical installation at the request of owners or o behalf of DOL - They had to report findings to DOL and could make recommendations . Ultimately it was up to DOL as to what action would be taken

    In short DOL is the custodian of the regulations and appoint an AIA to investigate and report back

    The ECA is an Employers organization and has absolutely no teeth to investigate or take action against an Electrical contractor unless that contractor is a member of the ECA .If he is an ECA member then there are internal processes that can take place
    ECA is a voluntary organization run by employers within the electrical industry - ECA employs staff to assist in the day to day running and to assist electrical contractors .ECA also has seats on technical committees with SANS , JBCC , SATS SA, NBCEI etc to provide inputs - Unfortunately Staff of the ECA sometimes seem to forget why they exist and the reason that they are employed , but that is a different story for a different day.

    ECB - As far as I am aware , is not even registered as an employers organization - It is the ECB and has absolutely no Teeth unless you belong to it as a member .Why you would want to pay fees to a entity that has no authority I am not sure and maybe somebody can point it out to me.

    If you are not a member of ECA or ECB then they cannot take any action against you as an Electrical contractor.

    In Short - Only the DOL can take action/recommend to the courts what action needs to be taken

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    This is the part that confuses me, the DOL register electrical contractors and should be policing the electrical industry, why does the owner have to pay the AIA to check a COC issued by an electrical contractor registered and approved by the DOL?

    The DOL (not the AIA) was on site requesting a COC from one of my industrial customers, because like most electrical contractors, we do things by the book, so the COC with all the other relevant documents (6 monthly thermal, power quality and other safety documents) were handed over.

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    The ECB is on a recruitment drive.
    Got a call from them about a week ago.
    Last time I had anything to do with them was in 1992.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isetech View Post
    This is the part that confuses me, the DOL register electrical contractors and should be policing the electrical industry, why does the owner have to pay the AIA to check a COC issued by an electrical contractor registered and approved by the DOL?

    The DOL (not the AIA) was on site requesting a COC from one of my industrial customers, because like most electrical contractors, we do things by the book, so the COC with all the other relevant documents (6 monthly thermal, power quality and other safety documents) were handed over.
    Agree with you - Problem is DOL don't have the staff and don't have the money to pay the AIA's to do the work
    In the beginning , if I rember correctly , the DOL was going to pay the AIA to carry out the inspection - The AIA's where not receiving payment and so the system collapsed

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    One of the problems to my mind when it comes to enforcement is the DOL is hellbent on prosecuting the people who are doing the electrical work. However, the owner/lessor/user of the electrical installation is not being held responsible for who they use to carry out electrical installation work. And reality is many are knowingly using people who are not suitably qualified and not working under the general supervision of a responsible person, and not registered as an electrical contractor.

    When I raised this at an electrical safety forum held in Durban (about 2016 or so), I was told by Pieter Laubscher that they do not pursue the user/lessor because they are reliant on them to be evidence providers in the DOL's prosecution of the "electrician" who did the work. He said they might consider prosecuting the owner/user/lessor afterwards. And confirmed that they never had pursued an owner/user/lessor yet for contravening the Electrical Installation Regulations up until then.

    As long as the owner/user/lessor gets a free pass on who they use, they will not pay attention to compliance with the Electrical Installation Regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    Agree with you - Problem is DOL don't have the staff and don't have the money to pay the AIA's to do the work
    In the beginning , if I rember correctly , the DOL was going to pay the AIA to carry out the inspection - The AIA's where not receiving payment and so the system collapsed
    I hear there are new AIA's in town, not linked to the other AIA.

    At the end of the day, the only person who looses, the responsible person (the property owner)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    One of the problems to my mind when it comes to enforcement is the DOL is hellbent on prosecuting the people who are doing the electrical work. However, the owner/lessor/user of the electrical installation is not being held responsible for who they use to carry out electrical installation work. And reality is many are knowingly using people who are not suitably qualified and not working under the general supervision of a responsible person, and not registered as an electrical contractor.

    When I raised this at an electrical safety forum held in Durban (about 2016 or so), I was told by Pieter Laubscher that they do not pursue the user/lessor because they are reliant on them to be evidence providers in the DOL's prosecution of the "electrician" who did the work. He said they might consider prosecuting the owner/user/lessor afterwards. And confirmed that they never had pursued an owner/user/lessor yet for contravening the Electrical Installation Regulations up until then.

    As long as the owner/user/lessor gets a free pass on who they use, they will not pay attention to compliance with the Electrical Installation Regulations.
    DIY home owners and home improvement depot electricians with a card "electrician" has become a major problem. At the the end of the day, the budget rules.

    People dont need doctors or trade test electricians, you can become a doctor or an electrician in less than an hour if you have Google or youtube The sad part is I have spent around 300 hours maybe even more, doing research, watching training videos and reading up on solar requirements and regulations and almost 40 years hands on experience yet I am still not qualified to do solar installations because I dont have a green card. I have taken the time to learn so that I can identify bullshyters.

    Like thermography, I have about 15 years of hands on experience and 5 years on/off of doing research, yet I am not qualified to issue reports, then I get reports from a person who has no experience in the elctrical field with a hot spot, I just smile and bill the customer for the repairs, 2 weeks later there is smoke coming out of a different panel, the insulations is burnt off the wire and the circuit breaker keeps tripping. The person who did the report indicated that at the time of test there was no hot spot detected.

    As we have learnt from past experience even using a member of an association doesn't guarantee a suitably qualified person or inspectors is gonna visiting the site and carry out tests.

    Much like "insurance approved contractors", since the riots, looting and flooding man you get to meet the worse of the worse incompetent contractors that I have ever seen.

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