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Thread: Council Oostersee box and SANS 10142(Compliance)

  1. #1
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    Council Oostersee box and SANS 10142(Compliance)

    We are in Cape town and do lots of compliance certificates and are not fly by night and take making a house safe seriously.Say Cape town as by laws might be an issue.
    We been challenged on one job where a council Oostersee box was said to need to be made compliant by us as is on the property of the house we did a sans 10142 certificate for.They saying as we did not make council connection compliant our coc is not valid for the property.Fact is it is a very old house and no sign of council meter (must be locked away in road)

    The issue is that there is no breakers on the council connection so if there is a dead short you need to call the council out to restore power on the road.We get that is best practise to have neutral bar etc and main breaker-so not arguing it is best practice to have these in the council oostersee box. Point is we could not switch off without calling council and we don't feel sans 10142 says that you need to put in a best practice connection in the council box. Granted if council box was unsafe we would flag it and make it safe (ie exposed live wires etc).To us this is council property and we talking about existing mostly old properties and not new council supply.

    Our argument is :
    -SAns 10142(our coc) starts at main distribution board of house and at point of control Ie main breaker.The point of supply is the council which is from outside the house.
    -Which law in sans10142 gives us permission to work in council boxes and we want it in writing the council giving us permission to work in their boxes.We have had false tampering charges before and as a rule, don't work in council property as according to us don't have the permission.You can't selectively apply the law to work in council boxes as what if as in most cases the council supply is locked on the road? Do we need to open them to open up for us in each coc?If the council board is inside the property well surely the law should cover that and we should have permission to work in council boxes.


    Any thoughts on the above from past experiences and which laws and not best practices force you to work in council board and that you have the permission for.Not arguing best practice we are arguing the law and looking to be proven wrong with the law in the context of sans10142.

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    Hi

    A COC covers the Electrical Installation as Defined in the OHSA , Electrical Installation Regulations of 2009 ( EIR)

    The definition of Electrical installation is from Point of Control to Point of consumption and excludes any machinery from the supplier
    Point of control and point of supply is clearly defined and if you could not isolate the supply to work on the connection box then it is not Point of Control . If you could isolate it then it could change .
    The COC would only cover point of control onwards , It however does not relieve the owner from being responsible for the supply cable

    The user is responsible for - extract from EIR " shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control" I would say from this statement that you would be responsible for the cable itself within the premises - Whether it is our responsibility to make the actual connection compliant I would debate especially since I cannot isolate the point - Maybe what should happen is that council get notify in writing that there is a problem with there connection and they sort it out.

    I have a feeling council are using that particular statement to push the blame onto you but looking at the definitions it is still not part of the COC

    Extracts from EIR pasted below

    Responsibility for electrical installations
    2. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), the user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety, safe use and maintenance of the electrical installation he or she uses or leases.
    (2) The user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control.


    Certificate of compliance
    7. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall have a valid certificate of compliance for that installation in the form of Annexure 1, which shall be accompanied by a test report in the format approved by the chief inspector, in respect of every such electrical installation.
    (2)
    Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall on request produce the certificate of compliance for that electrical installation to an inspector, a supplier or, subject to regulation 4(1), an approved inspection authority for electrical installations.

    Issuing of certificate of compliance
    9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.
    (2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that
    (a)
    a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
    (b)
    an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
    (c)
    an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
    (i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and
    (ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control.


    "point of supply" means the point at which electricity is supplied to any premises by a supplier;

    "point of control" means the point at which an electrical installation on or in any premises can be switched off by a user or lessor from the electricity supplied from the point of supply, or the point at which a particular part of an electrical installation on or in any premises can be switched off where different users occupy different portions of such premises;


    "electrical installation" means any machinery, in or on any premises, used for the transmission of electricity from a point of control to a point of consumption anywhere on the premises, including any article forming part of such an electrical installation irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical circuit, but excluding
    (a)
    any machinery of the supplier related to the supply of electricity on the premises;
    (b)
    any machinery which transmits electrical energy in communication, control circuits, television or radio circuits;

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    Hi

    A COC covers the Electrical Installation as Defined in the OHSA , Electrical Installation Regulations of 2009 ( EIR)

    The definition of Electrical installation is from Point of Control to Point of consumption and excludes any machinery from the supplier
    Point of control and point of supply is clearly defined and if you could not isolate the supply to work on the connection box then it is not Point of Control . If you could isolate it then it could change .
    The COC would only cover point of control onwards , It however does not relieve the owner from being responsible for the supply cable

    The user is responsible for - extract from EIR " shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control" I would say from this statement that you would be responsible for the cable itself within the premises - Whether it is our responsibility to make the actual connection compliant I would debate especially since I cannot isolate the point - Maybe what should happen is that council get notify in writing that there is a problem with there connection and they sort it out.

    I have a feeling council are using that particular statement to push the blame onto you but looking at the definitions it is still not part of the COC

    Extracts from EIR pasted below

    Responsibility for electrical installations
    2. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), the user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety, safe use and maintenance of the electrical installation he or she uses or leases.
    (2) The user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control.


    Certificate of compliance
    7. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall have a valid certificate of compliance for that installation in the form of Annexure 1, which shall be accompanied by a test report in the format approved by the chief inspector, in respect of every such electrical installation.
    (2)
    Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall on request produce the certificate of compliance for that electrical installation to an inspector, a supplier or, subject to regulation 4(1), an approved inspection authority for electrical installations.

    Issuing of certificate of compliance
    9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.
    (2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that
    (a)
    a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
    (b)
    an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
    (c)
    an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
    (i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and
    (ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control.


    "point of supply" means the point at which electricity is supplied to any premises by a supplier;

    "point of control" means the point at which an electrical installation on or in any premises can be switched off by a user or lessor from the electricity supplied from the point of supply, or the point at which a particular part of an electrical installation on or in any premises can be switched off where different users occupy different portions of such premises;


    "electrical installation" means any machinery, in or on any premises, used for the transmission of electricity from a point of control to a point of consumption anywhere on the premises, including any article forming part of such an electrical installation irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical circuit, but excluding
    (a)
    any machinery of the supplier related to the supply of electricity on the premises;
    (b)
    any machinery which transmits electrical energy in communication, control circuits, television or radio circuits;

    Thank you for helpful reply.We not trying to be difficult but the fact that we cant isolate the cable to us still means that our coc starts at the main board.Council would not give me concrete answers and again we raised the point of working in council property.It would be counterproductive to try do their work as they work to their own schedule.We are trying to run a business.

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