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Thread: No original CoC

  1. #11
    Gold Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuX10N View Post
    "A new CoC for this installation, tick ‘Initial Certificate’, indicating that this CoC constitutes the complete and whole document, or
    An additional CoC to an existing one, tick ‘Supplementary Certificate’, which indicates that this is a partial document only, and it must be read together with an ‘Initial Certificate’ and possibly other ‘Supplementary Certificates’ for it to be valid."

    "Initial" doesn't mean "complete installation".
    It refers to the document as a whole.

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    How do attorneys doing conveyancing know if the "Initial" COC received from the electrician is suitable to be used for a property to change ownership ?
    Or is it a case of, it's got a number, it must be ok.

    Derek

  2. #12
    Gold Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuX10N View Post
    Yes that's pretty much it. Well, it makes sense in that scenario because what are you supposed to do?

    Another thing I do is, If I see anything else not up to code while installing the plug circuit and plug, I'll inform the client (it's actually our obligation to do that).

    I'll still go ahead and issue a coc on my work if it's correct, even if the client refuses to fix the other things that don't affect my work.

    Wynand from TDMI said some wise words: "A COC is 10% for regulation purposes and 90% for covering your own ass"





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    This is what the occupational health and safety act prescribes and I quote:

    (3)
    If at any time prior to the issuing of a certificate of compliance any fault or defect is detected in any part of the electrical installation, the registered person shall refuse to issue such certificate until that fault or defect has been rectified: Provided that if such fault or defect in the opinion of the registered person constitutes an immediate danger to persons in a case where electricity is already supplied, he or she shall forthwith take steps to disconnect the supply to the circuit in which the fault or defect was detected and notify the chief inspector thereof.

    Peace out .. Derek

  3. #13
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    Thanks Derek. This still needs a bit of clarity though. Is this refering to the complete whole installation? Or does this refer to your specific part that you have worked on/completed?

    Lets use our original example: You install a single new plug point to an existing installation and discover that the earth leakage is faulty, then yes, you can't and don't issue a COC, because it affects the new part to your installation.

    But if you fit a plug point to an existing installation, and discover a light switch is faulty, you can issue a COC for the work that you have done and completed, as the light switch does not affect your part of the installation.

    It's the owners responsibility for safe use and maintenance of the installation.

    Regarding the initial COC and the surveying attorneys, I'm not sure on that. I just went by with what has been told to me by an accredited training institution, as I have specifically asked the facilitator what happens when an initial COC cannot be presented to you.



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  5. #14
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    I would say that
    "in any part of the electrical installation"
    speaks for itself.

    Further,
    2.8.2 Sub-regulation 2
    A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the
    required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of
    an inspection and test that-
    (a) a new electrical installation complies with the prov1s1ons of
    regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general
    control; or
    (b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of
    the current edition of the health and safety standard
    incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1 ),
    complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
    (c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which
    extensions or alterations have been effected, that-
    (i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with
    the general safety principles of such standard and is
    reasonably safe, and
    (ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the
    provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under
    his or her general control.

    It is my understanding that the only way to comply with part C of the above is to do an inspection of the entire electrical installation.
    It has always been my understanding that by issuing a certificate of compliance for an additional plug one takes responsibility for the entire electrical installation.

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    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

  6. #15
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    The meaning of the word:

    initial
    /ɪˈnɪʃ(ə)l/
    Learn to pronounce
    adjective
    existing or occurring at the beginning.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  7. #16
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    I feel that if we had to take responsibility for the whole electrical installation of the property I would never install a plug... or a plug install will be mighty expensive and take a hell of a lot longer haha.

    I take it as we take responsibility for the electrical installtion of what was installed only.

    But glad this discussion is happening.

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  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylboy View Post
    I feel that if we had to take responsibility for the whole electrical installation of the property I would never install a plug... or a plug install will be mighty expensive and take a hell of a lot longer haha.

    I take it as we take responsibility for the electrical installtion of what was installed only.

    But glad this discussion is happening.

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    This is the reason that I don't do installation work.

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    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

  10. #18
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    This is the kind of thing I deal with all the time ... how do you install a circuit breaker in this DB or should I say how do you issue a COC once you have fitted your circuit breaker in this DB and run the wire to the machine ?


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  11. #19
    Gold Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    I would say that
    "in any part of the electrical installation"
    speaks for itself.

    Further,
    2.8.2 Sub-regulation 2
    A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the
    required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of
    an inspection and test that-
    (a) a new electrical installation complies with the prov1s1ons of
    regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general
    control; or
    (b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of
    the current edition of the health and safety standard
    incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1 ),
    complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
    (c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which
    extensions or alterations have been effected, that-
    (i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with
    the general safety principles of such standard and is
    reasonably safe, and
    (ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the
    provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under
    his or her general control.

    It is my understanding that the only way to comply with part C of the above is to do an inspection of the entire electrical installation.
    It has always been my understanding that by issuing a certificate of compliance for an additional plug one takes responsibility for the entire electrical installation.

    Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
    I sort of agree.

    That is why I insisted, about 2 weeks ago, on seeing the original COC for a property that had recently been transferred before issuing a supplementary for the add on's that I did.

    The COC presented to me was a supplementary and I rejected it.

    When the initial COC was presented, I gladly issued a supplementary to the original.

    Here comes the part that I think is the reason for the supplementary COC being there.

    I take responsibility for my add on's as described in the supplementary.

    The electrician who issued the original takes responsibility for the rest.


    Peace out ... Derek


    Edit: I have searched but cannot find anything in either SANS10142 or OHSA that mentions the word " supplementary COC "
    It might be helpful if, in future versions of same, some guidelines could be included pertaining to Supplementary COC's as it seems as if at the moment each electrician follows their own interpretation of what the procedure is, myself included.

    If one had to issue an initial coc for adding a plug, my question then is ... why the need for a supplementary coc ?
    Last edited by Derlyn; 19-Dec-21 at 12:49 PM.

  12. #20
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    I found this...


    Do I need a CoC when I do alterations to the electrical system on my property?

    Yes. A CoC must be issued when any alterations are done to an electrical installation. For example, if traditional lighting is replaced by downlights, the electrical contractor must ensure that a valid CoC is issued for that work. Where any addition or alteration has been done to an electrical installation for which a CoC has already been issued, the user or lessor of that electrical installation must get a supplementary CoC for the addition or alteration. Both CoCs must be kept together in a safe place.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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