How to make your property COC complaint

[ians]

This is were it all begins in simple terms.

I will use a house as an example ... but it applies to every building.

You get an electrician to fit 1 socket outlet ... does he need to issue a COC .. the answer is simple yes.

However you dont even know what a COC look like ... that's where the problem begins.

The electrician cannot issue a COC if there is no original COC ... other wise he automatically takes full responsibility for the entire electrical installation.

So before you call an electrician ... make sure your property has a valid COC ... the COC is valid for as long as you live in the property. (not that simple if you sell ... but we are not going to complicate it)

Once you find the COC and any supplementary COC attachments ... you make the electrician aware of the documents so that when they are finished the installation then they can fill out the supplementary COC ... take a copy of all the documents and hand the original to you ... which must be attached to the original and stored in a safe place.

[ians]

Lets say you dont know if your property has a COC ... what would be the correct steps to get it ready for you to call an electrician to work at your house?

You contact a registered electrical contractor and request a "Test report" ... no not a COC ... the COC can only be issued once all the items listed on the "test report" are completed and all the tests are completed and correct.

Once you have an original COC ... then you get an electrician to install any additional components.

The other option is to get an electrician to install a socket outlet but you need to make them aware that there is no original COC and therefore a full Test report for the entire property will be required at which time they could include the new socket outlet or lighting or whatever they install.

[ians]

Something you need to be aware of ... no mater how long you have lived on the property ... just because the lights work ... doesnt make it compliant.

Just because an electrician installs a socket and light fitting ... you cant expect the entire installation to be compliant

Until you as the responsible person (the property owner) on your property request or authorize a full test report on your entire property and any repairs to be carried out ... and been issued an original test report with the COC ... and you can provide the original document to any electrician working on the site.

The same with property owners who rent out their property ... if you rent out the property to a person ... if you have not provided the user or lessee with a valid COC ... you cannot expect the user or lessee to be responsible and it would be an interesting court case trying to claim against the user lessee if someone was injured on the property.

When the user lessee moves out ... you wouldn't have a leg to stand on trying to claim for repairs to the electrical installation.

That is why when one of my customers move into a property ... I insist they get a valid COC ... I am yet to see a valid COC ... what I normally do is just attached a few photos and a list of visual non complaint items in an email ... which identifies the COC issued as invalid ... just to CYA.

Some of the common comments I hear.

"I have only used the best electricians in the past" ... you should see some of the photos I have in my collections.

"the guy who fitted the fans was a registered electrician" ... then why didnt he install and connect an earth wire ?

"I dont understand why the earth leakage must be replaced ... its never been a problem or tripped" ... OK.

"My teams would never do that" ... 2 lights on a plug tester tell no lies ... if there is no earth wire at the plug box ... its doesn't mean that you don't have to install an earth wire when installing a plastic socket outlet or 4x4 PVC extension box ... the right way to do it ... especially if the installation is old and the pipes are rusted ... pull a new earth wire or at least screw a earth wire to the steel box ... or fit a earth tag or bonding strap onto the steel pipe.

[skatingsparks]

"The electrician cannot issue a COC if there is no original COC ... other wise he automatically takes full responsibility for the entire electrical installation."

I disagree. I take responsibility for what ever is detailed in section 3 of the COC.

I will check a circuit I'm going to add to before doing any work but I don't take responsibility for the whole installation.

If you work in a shop in a shopping mall, are responsible for the whole mall?

And honestly even if a property has a COC - 99 times out of 100 its worthless.

If it continues to be possible to get a "COC" for R600 that will always be the case.

Besides I find, especially in domestics, that there is no incoming earth from municipality.

On quite a few occasions on properties I have done work on there was an incoming earth when I did the job and issed a CoC but then a few years later I go there for follow up work and there is no incoming earth. The number of times that has happened, this year alone, is close tjust into double figures - even my own house!

Who takes the fall if something goes wrong then. The results from a test and inspection for CoC can only be considered, if done properly, valid for that day.
Who knows what will happen once you leave. Municipality "missplace" the incoming earth when joining cables. Is that the electricians fault?

Have you ever seen a municipality worker with a loop tester - I haven't. Usually a multimeter from cash converters

I'll advise a client if the rest of the installation is a mess, but you can't make people take advice.

The way COC is done is outdated. And unrealistic in some parts. I mean if you have ware house with 400 lights - do you disconnect every light to megger it? 20 mins a light, 9 hours a day thats 2 weeks work!

I think there should be a "limitations" section on the CoC like they have in the UK.

[Derlyn]

"The electrician cannot issue a COC if there is no original COC ... other wise he automatically takes full responsibility for the entire electrical installation."

I disagree. I take responsibility for what ever is detailed in section 3 of the COC.

I will check a circuit I'm going to add to before doing any work but I don't take responsibility for the whole installation.

If you work in a shop in a shopping mall, are responsible for the whole mall?

And honestly even if a property has a COC - 99 times out of 100 its worthless.

If it continues to be possible to get a "COC" for R600 that will always be the case.

Besides I find, especially in domestics, that there is no incoming earth from municipality.

On quite a few occasions on properties I have done work on there was an incoming earth when I did the job and issed a CoC but then a few years later I go there for follow up work and there is no incoming earth. The number of times that has happened, this year alone, is close tjust into double figures - even my own house!

Who takes the fall if something goes wrong then. The results from a test and inspection for CoC can only be considered, if done properly, valid for that day.
Who knows what will happen once you leave. Municipality "missplace" the incoming earth when joining cables. Is that the electricians fault?

Have you ever seen a municipality worker with a loop tester - I haven't. Usually a multimeter from cash converters

I'll advise a client if the rest of the installation is a mess, but you can't make people take advice.

The way COC is done is outdated. And unrealistic in some parts. I mean if you have ware house with 400 lights - do you disconnect every light to megger it? 20 mins a light, 9 hours a day thats 2 weeks work!

I think there should be a "limitations" section on the CoC like they have in the UK.

I agree 100% with everything you say.

I had an issue recently where a property changed hands and the COC that the attorneys used was a supplementary COC.
I then had to issue a COC for a generator installation, but I could not issue a supplementary COC to a supplementary COC.
I was also not prepared to do an inspection and testing on the whole installation to issue an initial COC.

After informing the attorneys of their mistake, they got the contractor who issued the COC for the sale to go through, to re inspect the installation and issue an initial certificate. I then issued a supplementary COC to that initial COC.

This is the only time ever that an attorney has admitted to me that they made a mistake.

Lesson learn't by them. Because the COC is yellow, does not mean it is a valid COC.

Peace out .. Derek

[skatingsparks]

"Lesson learn't by them. Because the COC is yellow, does not mean it is a valid COC"

Mine are white. I do online/eCoC and print them on white paper.

If they have a problem I get them to call the ECA.

[ians]

The problem starts with the responsible person ... if there is no public awareness and the responsible person is clueless about their responsibility ... how would you even open a case against the responsible person ? ... that where the fight starts.

I would love to be a fly on the wall if the responsible person was every taken to court ... with a attorney who knows their stuff ... maybe that is why we dont see any court cases ... which at the end of the day only one industry benefits.

[ians]

Lets clear this up first ... from my understanding ... you cannot issue a supplementary COC for "part" of an installation ... if you dont have an Initial certificate.

For example

A house is a simple example ... If there is no initial COC ... how do you issue a supplementary certificate ?

Top of annexure 1 requires a tick in the block ... "initial" or "supplementary" ... if you tick Initial ... the COC number at the top of the page would become the initial COC ... which would mean that you have to fill out "all" the details for the entire site at that point in time ... including all the illegal wiring every semi or skilled electrician have carried out since the day of the original installation.

This is why the smart unregistered or semi skilled contractors who carry out work illegally tell the owner to contact a registered company and tell them that they are selling the house .. that way they get an Initial certificate which covers the entire site including their work.

The same would apply for a shopping mall ... the owner of the shop would have an initial COC and the person renting the shop would attach the supplementary certificate for the installation ... depending on what is already installed compared to what the person renting has installed.

If came along afterwards and installed an additional socket outlet ... you would issue a supplementary certificate which would be added to the Initial certificate.

You cannot go into a shop ... fit 1 plug and issue supplementary certificate if there is no Initial certificate for the shop ... if there is no Initial certificate ...then your certificate would become the Initial and you would then have to have a test report attached with the details of the entire shop ... not just the socket you installed nor the entire mall.

This is my argument ... if ... we as the registered inspectors cant even get it right ... how can you make the owner the responsible person ???