Proposed Pledge

[Sieg]

A simpler pledge which they may just understand?

I pledge:

to be a good kid
to be obedient
to learn
to respect my elders
to listen to the teachers and my parents

to not cause trouble
to not burn down classrooms
to not smoke, drink or take drugs
to not rape
to not have sex with underage kids



Sieg

[Chatmaster]

To pledge or not to pledge


My question: if I am a learner and I refuse to recite the pledge, am I committing some sort of transgression? Do I have a Constitutional Right to keep quiet?


Sieg

I think the question we need to ask ourselves is why would the kid refuse? This would probably come from parents that tell their kids to do so. Most of the kids have no understanding of what a pledge means. They might understand the meaning of some of the words, but not the true meaning of the pledge itself.

There will be issues with regards to parents telling their kids not to say the pledge, I for one will not allow my kid to say the existing pledge. But that brings me to a cross roads, because I do support some sort of a pledge as a starting point for national pride. To please all of us will be near impossible, therefor the suggestion that the kids write their own pledge.

Further more, to say that you commit some sort of transgression will mean that they will have to change the constitution as you mentioned...

This is a tough one!

[Dave A]

Sieg poses a brilliant question.

If you ask the right questions, the answers become obvious.

[Debbiedle]

Hi

Good queston Sieg. Naledi Pandor responded to that question with "why should they?"

My daughter attends an average government school (grade 9) - the consensus in their grade is "WTH?" Why should we carry the same resentments and anger or burdens and guilt that our parents do, this is a new generation we want to get on with life..."

Let us ALL learn from them........

[Graeme]

"recognising the injustices of our past,"

As someone wrote in the Mercury this morning, the past began one second ago. What is the Govt going to do with all the injustices since 1994, like affirmative action, quotas in sport...... Need I go on?

[Chatmaster]

"recognising the injustices of our past,"

As someone wrote in the Mercury this morning, the past began one second ago. What is the Govt going to do with all the injustices since 1994, like affirmative action, quotas in sport...... Need I go on?

Another important point you are touching here Graeme.

Government can create a very strong sense of unity within this country the moment they wash their own racism out of their minds. They wish to unite South Africa and get the youth to better themselves in order for the future to improve. The problem is that even after 14 years of freedom the youth that leave school now have to deal with legislation and treatment they had no contribution to or even deserve. That must be confusing to them who are innocent parties in the past of this country.

Before the pledge is taken further I think that government should first look in depth at their own point of view and put an absolute end to race based discrimination. However as I have pointed out in the past, that is where the ANC's power lies. Keeping racism alive maintain the natural fear for the return of the past for the majority of our citizens. Continuously reminding the nation of our country's apartheid past keeps them in the driver seats. But as Debbie pointed out before, the nation is slowly but surely realizing the truth.

[Dave A]

Why should we carry the same resentments and anger or burdens and guilt that our parents do, this is a new generation we want to get on with life..."

There is hope

[Dave A]

This certainly has stirred things up. In this M&G article, we see the diversity of opinions.

The pledge has been described alternatively as an attempt at fostering social cohesion and as ideological abuse.

One newspaper columnist said it would do little but remind children that "the little white ones among them are evil seed".

"This oath is nothing more than an attempt by the [ruling] ANC to indoctrinate vulnerable school children with a permanent guilt complex," said Jaco Mulder, a provincial parliamentarian of the white minority Freedom Front Plus opposition party.

Some object to the fact that besides the expected commitment to such values as human dignity and justice, nearly half the pledge has to do with injustices perpetrated under the apartheid state.

Education Minister Naledi Pandor defended the move on Friday, telling the Mail & Guardian it was a bid to promote "national unity where ideals are not expressed only by those who participated in the struggle".

"We hope that young people ... do come to have an appreciation of the struggle that was centred on certain principles of humanity."

The proposal has been welcomed by the African National Congress Youth League.

"We are of the opinion that the pledge will go a long way to imbue the youth with a sense of pride, patriotism, nation building and a caring society," it said in a statement.

"Just as no farmer would plant a young sapling in the eye of the storm, no nation as young as ours can be expected to overcome its growing pains without some help," said the Star, welcoming the initiative.

But Business Day said it was a good idea badly executed.

"The text ... contains much about the injustices of the past but little about what's important now," it said.

"This is a troubled and fragmented society and we could do with some unifying values and rituals. But this pledge doesn't quite make the grade."

President Thabo Mbeki told lawmakers on Thursday it was important to keep in mind that both black and white citizens had contributed to today's South Africa.

Yet recent national debate, he said, had illustrated a clear division "between those who believe South Africa is experiencing the worst of times and those who assert that this is the best of times".

I think I'm on the side of a good idea badly executed.

[Chatmaster]

Some serious opinions in there that are worth reading. I wonder just how open minded the ANC is about the pledge. It certainly is a great idea, but...

[twinscythe12332]

The youth of today question more than most realise. when I was in high school, there were points in time where a teacher would literally have to step forward and say "the lord's prayer should be said loudly and proudly" and we would have to repeat it. in matric, there was pretty much a section around me that kept silent.

to be quite honest, if this pledge had been forced on us in high school, I don't think most of us would be saying it or protest. Guess it's just another form of ears being covered. I am South African, I know my past, I don't need to be guilt tripped every day. I think this is the part that is so insane. EVERY DAY. effectively put down EVERY DAY. I can already see a 9 year old going home to their parents crying saying "Mommy, why I am I such a bad person." a pledge, I can agree with. but one that makes sense =/