Water features, ponds and strip lights

[ians]

From what I can recall all pool lights etc had to be 12 V and connected to a safety transformer.

What I am seeing a lot of ... swimming pools with 12 or 24 volt strip lights attached to the lip of the tile around the pool ... connected to LED divers.

Looking at the new pool lights ... the new pool lights are completed sealed in an epoxy type material with thin little wires running back to a driver at the pool DB. The good news is most of the installations have a proper sealed joint connecting the wire from the pool DB to the light.

Please share your thoughts on strip lights and pools and water features and ponds etc ... IP ratings and voltages.

[GCE]

The regulations are clear that it would need to be a safety supply not exceeding 12V ( Reg pasted below)
Definition of safety supply pasted below

If the driver is marked as SELV then you can use it as long as it is outside the zone 0

The LED strip would need to be IPX8 rating - This could be a challenge in finding a suitable rated LED strip operating at 12V which is why you are maybe seeing 24v strips being used.The reg only allows for 12v



7.2.3.2 Protection against electric shock
The only measure permitted for providing protection against electric shock in
zone 0 is the use of a safety supply that operates at a nominal voltage not
exceeding 12 V and that has its source outside the zone. The measures of
protection by means of obstacles, placing equipment out of arm's reach, nonconducting
locations or earth-free equipotential bonding to provide protection
are not permitted

3.67
safety supply
supply of electricity that is obtained from
a) the unearthed secondary circuit of an isolating transformer with limited
output voltage, specified by the manufacturer, or
b) any other isolating device that provides equivalent safety and the same
degree of separation between the primary and secondary circuits, or
d) an isolated generator or a battery that provides a non-earthed supply

3.84.2
safety extra low voltage
SELV
voltage that does not exceed 50 V a.c. or 120 V ripple-free d.c. between
conductors, or between any conductor and earth, in a circuit which is
isolated from the supply mains by means such as a safety isolating
transformer

7.2.4.1 Degrees of protection against ingress of water in installed
electrical equipment
Electrical equipment shall have at least the following degrees of protection
against ingress of water in accordance with SANS 60529:
a) in zone 0: IPX8;
b) in zone 1: IPX5;
IPX4 for swimming pools inside buildings which normally are
not cleaned by means of jets;
c) in zone 2: IP22 for indoor locations;
IPX4 for outdoor locations;
IPX5 where water jets are likely to occur for cleaning purposes

[ians]

So would I be correct in thinking .. people installing LED in pools and water features assume an LED driver has a safety isolating transformer ?

While on site today I realised why the industry is dragging in the gutter ... the ticket/job card was to carrying out 4 small jobs ... by the time I left my brain was exploding with the repair list I had generated in my head of things which required attention.

I have the same problem on another site ... the list of repairs is so long that it would literally take me 3 months and ton cash to bring the building up to standard ... I start a small job and by the time I go to connect the 5 lights I installed ... it turns out the entire building has no earth ... because someone had removed all 8 ft light fitting and replaced them with 5 ft fitting (shorter) ... so instead of installing an earth wire they used PVC conduit to extend the pipes ... this is becoming a common thing ... old metal plug sockets replaced with new PVC sockets ... so no earth continuity ... when you contact the owner of the company whos "team" did the job they get all up your face like you have done something wrong.

Thank goodness electricity is not dangerous.

[Derlyn]

I know, a bit off topic but it's nice business having to replace all the ripcord installed by the gate industry dudes with twin & earth and installing isolators on same. 220 volt units.

Don't they also have regulations like we do ?

Anyway, they keep a steady stream of work coming my way so I shouldn't complain.

Peace ou .. Derek.

[adrianh]

Look at this video about LED shock hazards. I wonder how many LED lights out there have this possible issue. I suppose the rule is to never touch a defective light fitting when the power is turned on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeKL82V3p-Q

[ians]

This could and I believe should become an interesting topic.

As we all know there are regulations which should be noted ... however as with inverter and PV installations ... things change and so should the regulations.

Looking at 24 VDC led strip lights used in swimming pools ... and I would bet money that 230 VDC flex lighting is also being used in some cases.

So I would think that it would be a good discussion ... like you can install a 230 volt shaver unit in the bathroom or an extractor fan ... what if the flex light is totally encased in an IP 68 non metallic sleeve?

I would like to hear what your thoughts are on this topic because I can tell you as I sit here typing this becoming a common practise ... rather it be addressed and looked into finding practical solutions.

[ians]

7.2.3.2 Protection against electric shock
The only measure permitted for providing protection against electric shock in
zone 0 is the use of a safety supply that operates at a nominal voltage not
exceeding 12 V and that has its source outside the zone. The measures of
protection by means of obstacles, placing equipment out of arm's reach, nonconducting
locations or earth-free equipotential bonding to provide protection
are not permitted.
(thanks to GCE)

Lets break this down and go into a bit of detail and real life situations (not an expert in this field at the moment) your comments are welcome.

Generally a light in a swimming pool will be fed from the "pool DB" ... installed sometimes out of Zone 3 and sometimes within Zone 3 or even zone 1 or 2 ... and no you cannot install a DB in zone 3.

So the first question you would be asking yourself ... "is my pump and DB far enough away from the pool ... water feature etc" ... You might think I am crazy even suggesting it might not be ... until you look at some pools where the pump and DB is literally connected to the pool.

Lets start with the lights below the surface in the pool.

a long time ago we installed 12V VW headlights ... which meant you would need to install a decent thickness cable taking into consideration the wattage of the lamp and the volt drop for the distance from the pool DB to the light.

Man these lights were a nightmare ... in most cases you would find the goose neck flooded and the lamp submerged in water ... it didnt matter because the lamp was fed from a 120 VA 12 VAC safety isolating transformer ... in most cases they werent even switched on due to the headaches they caused.

There are still a few of these pool lights around ... however things have changed ... I would say for the better.

In most cases where people have still used the 120 VA safety pool transformer and connected the new LED pool lights ... its all good because in most cases the new LED lights which are installed are still 12VAC ... I have seen a few pool companies used the resin filled connector to link the lamp to the cable from the transformer.

The new challenge is the strip lights being installed on the lip inside the pool.

This is where it starts getting interesting ... firstly you need to know the zone ... which if you look at page 220 will see that any surface within the pool is regarded as zone 0.

The regulations above would apply.

Which means no matter the IP rating ... or class of the light/appliance .. cannot be installed in zone unless fed from a 12 V safety supply.

SO if you decided to seal a 24 or 230 volt strip light to IPX 8 and it has no metallic parts or fed from a 230 volt isolated safety supply ... you cannot install the light in zone 0.

It is not impossible to install a 12 V strip around a pool ... you would need to take the regs and the volt drop into account.
From wheat I have learnt about 12 strip lights ... 5 M is regarded as a max distance ... but nothing stops you from splitting 5m to the left and 5 m to the right which would give you a 10 m span which could cover the entire lip of the pool ... I wish you luck trying to install a standard 12 V strip light around the lip of a pool.

To complicate things we move on to a light installed above a pond ... a very popular light .. .the one behind the water fall.

By the way if an architect design has a light in zone 0 ... the regs still apply ... unless an electrical engineer has found a loo hole in the regs and can supply credible documentation which can be attached to the COC ... to show other wise I would be cautious.

[ians]

I see it is possible to find 12 V neon flex lighting.

https://www.ledsales.co.za/products/...co-12v-6x12mm/

[ians]

Ideal for swimming pool ... and submersible ... you can even get water proof power supply ?


https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/5225...20M_WHITE.html

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/5217...er_Supply.html

[adrianh]

Ideal for swimming pool ... and submersible ... you can even get water proof power supply ?


https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/5225...20M_WHITE.html

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/5217...er_Supply.html

That company is an offshore drop-shipper - I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. They may be like Wish....you pay and get a small bag of marbles or some nonsense.