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  1. #1
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    To ZA-plug or not

    Good Day
    I don't have a sans edition 3 YET but the confusion on the ZA plug continue to rule the day

    From what I understand from the grapevine is that all new sockets installed after May must make provision for a ZA plug

    My question is what about workshops and single socket outlets 4x2 size

    Greetings
    Thys Fourie

  2. #2
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    Hello

    from my understanding is that on a new circuit, eg. Renovation or addition. At least one socket outlet within that new circuit must be the new euro ZA socket thing. As for the 2x4 I will dig deeper as currently studying to do P2 as passed P1 on the installation rules. If plausible and a possible solution, if you are doing a renovation, find a 4x4 on the same circuit and make it the euro ZA socket.

    Thinking further as I type, if it is a few outlets, making one of the outlets the Euro socket and then then the rest the 3-prong.

    One of the more esteemed and time served gents may be able to add more light and correct me if wrong but I do hope I have been of some help

    Have a great evening.

    Cheers
    Dyl.



    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Hi

    The ZA plug , or commonly referred to as Euro, was needed at each socket outlet point in ED2 from Jan 2018.

    ED2 Reg pasted below - Sans 164-2 is the Euro and Sans 164-1 is what we know as normal socket

    Sans 10142-1 Ed2
    6.15.1.1.1 Except where otherwise specified in this part of SANS 10142,
    single-phase socket-outlets for general use (see also 6.14.1.4) shall
    a) be of the two-pole and earthing contact type,
    b) comply with SANS 164-0,
    c) effective from January 2018 all socket-outlet points for new electrical
    installations shall include at least one socket-outlet complying with the
    dimensions of SANS 164-2.
    Socket-outlets points may also include
    socket-outlets complying with the dimentions of SANS 164-1.



    In Ed3 they changed the requirement slightly - The regulation is the same but the note allows sockets side by side on the same circuit to be one outlet point.This helped on powerskirting and other odd places in an inductrial or commercial set up.
    It is not often in a domestic set up that you would have sockets side by side .

    Sans 10142-1 ED3
    6.15.1.1.1 Except where otherwise specified in this part of SANS 10142,
    single-phase socket-outlets for general use (see also 6.14.1.4) shall
    a) be of the two-pole and earthing contact type,
    b) comply with SANS 164-0 and
    c) for new electrical installations each socket-outlet point shall include at least
    one socket-outlet complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-2. Socketoutlet
    points may also include socket-outlets complying with the
    dimensions of SANS 164-1 in addition to SANS 164-2 socket-outlet.
    NOTE Where socket-outlets are installed on the same circuit side by side, this
    configuration could be considered one outlet point.


    The only people causing the confusion are electrical contractors who do not read the regulations.
    The regulations refer to socket outlet POINTS not CIRCUIT
    Since Jan 2018 every socket installed should have had a Euro.
    From Jan 2018 the demand for " normal " double sockets should have been close to zero.
    You get the format in 4x2 if you exclude the switch- It is not a requirement to have a switch on a socket outlet.

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    That was a first ... today I had to buy a pile of double socket outlets ... the shelves are full of normal double socket outlets ... but the brand shneider iconic range ... no stock of double socket oultets ... only the silly ones

    What a shame they have discontinued the clipsal S2000 range ... to keep the look I made the mistake of using MES switches and sockets as a replacement ... You can feel the MES is a cheap crap product ... generally I have had any problem until I fitted 2 way switches into the 4x4 grid plates ... then it just went downhill ... the 2 way switches work no problem in the 4x2 grid plates ... It seems the 4x4 grid plate is a dud ... I have even tried a different supplier ... same thing.

    Like onesto ... I had my first fail 2 weeks ago ... a 40 amp triple breaker malfunctioned ... it was still in the on position but no continuity top to bottom ... switched in on/off a couple tmes ... hitit twice with a hammer and walla it working again and still working.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post

    Like onesto ... I had my first fail 2 weeks ago ... a 40 amp triple breaker malfunctioned ... it was still in the on position but no continuity top to bottom ... switched in on/off a couple tmes ... hitit twice with a hammer and walla it working again and still working.
    Glad you still trust it to trip when required to.

    How many times have we been called out for geyser problems to find the Onesto breaker faulty.
    Replaced with Chint and never go back.

    Why Onesto decided to make their switches and plugs with rounded corners, nobody knows.

    Firstly, if you use their product on surface boxes it looks, well, ugly. The corners of the square surface box stand out a mile.
    Secondly, you cannot replace another brand with an Anesto for the same reason. Their plugs and switches do not cover the paint line.

    I avoid Anesto like poison.

    Just my personal experiences.

    Peace out ... Derek
    Last edited by Derlyn; 03-Jun-21 at 08:51 PM.

  6. #6
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    Had a look at all the devices in my kitchen last night.

    Mixer - Ushuko
    tin opener - 2 pin
    phone charger - 2 pin
    kettle/toaster/air fryer/microwave/convection oven/dishwasher/coffee machine and every other device has a 16 amp 3 pin socket outlet ... even the stove.

    The only plug top with a piece of plastic on the pin ... believe it or not ... the stove.

    Heres the thing ... every single socket outlet is used with a clipsal or MES socket should be deemed unsuitable for use ... why because it restricts the switch from being switched off ... the moulded plug are too big ... so I ask myself this question how the F%^&* are these appliances or sockets being supplied in SA with the SANS standards ... do you blame the elctrician because he used clipsal or MES ... or do you blame the appliance supplier.

    There was mention that sockets no longer need to be switched ... but in the post ... ther m ention of the new reg because of the safety aspect ... a child could get electricuted with small fingers while trying to remove the socket ... yet a new law is passed creating an even more dangerous ... why ... because in reality you should switch off the socket before you remove the socket ... the reason for this ... the load ... if you try removed/insert a socket while it is under load there are 2 things that happen either there is an arc which creates ahigh resistance on the pin ... and secondaly the more important concern ... the risk of the child being elctricuted to death due to the load on the circuit ( if there is no load the risk is drastically reduced)

    The more I think about this reg and other regs the more It concerns me to how much thought actually goes into them.

    Like the COC ... maybe maybe they should consult with people actually working in the industry.

    How many "hands on" electricians reading this post have ever had a document sent to them for review prior to it being implimented?

    I have only ever had 1 document sent to me via email ... and that was a couple of weeks ago ... because I sent in proposed connections for an inverter installation ... the same thing happened when load shedding started ... suddenly there was this massive inrush of generator installtions and boy were there some dodgey installations ... after getting the technical people out to site so that they could see what an installation looked like ... so the regs started improving.

    We have enough problems in this industry which require serious attention ... stop wasting time with silly regs like this and focus on the real problems ... the first one should be recording and checking random COC's ... its doesnt help create a bunch regs and nobody give a shyte about them ... knowing nobody is actually going to do anything about it.

    If you going to make regs ... at least create a standard across the board and make sure that everyone is accountable for the reg ... not just the suck who does the installation ... the wholesalers ...appliance stores everyone should be accountable for making sure the products sold to the public are up to standard and safe to use.

    rant over
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  7. #7
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    If you replace a double socket outlet ... do you have to replace it with the new type socket ?

    If all new installations must have a ZA socket ... why are double sockets still avaialbe to buy?

    I have just installed 17 Double socket outlets in my kitchen ... I will be replacing one with a euro type for charging my phone (in fact it will be one with 3 euro plugs ... to charge the phone ... the tablet and the garmin device) ... I dont has a use for 17 euro sockets in my kitchen ... every device in my kitchen comes standard with a 15 amp socket outlet ... I cant see myself cutting off 15 amp sockets to install 2 pin plug tops

    Just imagine my toaster ... washing machine ... tumble drier ... kettle ... microwave ... fridge ... stove ... coffee machine etc with 2 pin plug tops ... I am going to say it again ... of all the dumb regulations over the years ... this one gets the cream and cherry on top.

    who ever feels I am being unreasonable ... please free to supply the 2 pin plug tops and the cost for an electrician to come replace them on all my appliances ... would you really be that stupid and run your tumble drier off one of these dodgey 2 pin plug tops for sale ... even the new 15 amp plug tops are only rated to 3 amps (if you look carefully at the hollow ones).

    Behind the TV ... well that is another story ... I would need to install 15 outlets to accomodate all the 2 pins for the TV ... DVR ... Speaker sytem ... router ... etc etc.

    Feel free to educate me on why it is a safety issue ... extender plugs come with both thermal overload and surge protection ... I dont see surge protection or thermal protection on these 2 pin ZA plugs?
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  8. #8
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    If you replace a double socket outlet ... do you have to replace it with the new type socket ?
    It has been a grey area in my eyes but the general acceptance has been you can replace in an existing installation like for like

    If all new installations must have a ZA socket ... why are double sockets still avaialbe to buy?
    Supply and demand - as long as people are buying them they will manufacture them - They are not illegal , you just cannot issue a COC if you do a new installation and if you cant issue a COC then the work complete is basically deemed illegal

    I have just installed 17 Double socket outlets in my kitchen ... I will be replacing one with a euro type for charging my phone (in fact it will be one with 3 euro plugs ... to charge the phone ... the tablet and the garmin device) ... I dont has a use for 17 euro sockets in my kitchen ... every device in my kitchen comes standard with a 15 amp socket outlet ... I cant see myself cutting off 15 amp sockets to install 2 pin plug tops

    Just imagine my toaster ... washing machine ... tumble drier ... kettle ... microwave ... fridge ... stove ... coffee machine etc with 2 pin plug tops ... I am going to say it again ... of all the dumb regulations over the years ... this one gets the cream and cherry on top.
    The way I understood the plan was that all appliance will start swopping across to the new plug top - Already a fair amount of kitchen appliances are coming with Euro plug tops. We have installed extractor fans that came with euro plug tops


    Feel free to educate me on why it is a safety issue ... extender plugs come with both thermal overload and surge protection ... I dont see surge protection or thermal protection on these 2 pin ZA plugs?


    The dangerous bit is when people take out the old 16amp socket you can touch the pins while extracting the plug top and kids can get all sorts of bits pushed into the plug openings - the smaller euro pins make it less likely to shove something in and the recessed portion stops fingers from touching the pins on extraction.

    It was not an overnight decision and was discussed and debated by all role players within the industry

    Before the regulation was adopted it was put out for public comment - Did you lodge objections at that stage ?

  9. Thanks given for this post:

    Justloadit (01-Jun-21)

  10. #9
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    "edit" my apologies ... there is no such thing as MCE socket outlets.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  11. #10
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    I think after all the debating the biggest problem is misinformation amongst the public,retailers and electricians.

    The two pin pin plug is called the euro standard not sure of a better or correct name since it does mot have an earth pin. The Za plug have an earth and fit only one way in a socket. So Mr, Nel cant become something else unless wired wrongly

    Greetings

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