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Thread: To ZA-plug or not

  1. #11
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    A question suitable for this regualation ... If I install 3 x 4x4 x 6 ZA socket per grid (18 ZA) randomly placed in the kitchen does it make it sort of legal ... if I have 17 double sockets and 18 Za sockets it should be ok ... they just not mounted on the double socket ... but rather a more suitable location ... like in the middle of the kitchen where I could at least use the sockets ... to charge my phone or use the tin opener.

    It seems pointless having them under the counter between the washing machine and tumble drier ... imagine that having to cut off the tumble drier plug top to fit a ZA plug top (there goes your warranty)
    just imagine the insurance broker arriving to access the damage to find the cause of the fire was a ZA plug top ... what are the chances your R150 000 claim will be paid out swiftly eeeesih ... and I have seen fire started from real solid brass 16 amp socket outlets ... R200 000 claim rejected because the weather report indicated no lightning on the day of the surge which blew the entire building electronics ( the customer lost a total of over R300 000 in damages caused by a surge ...which took out the electronics in every house on the enitre street)


    Considering a lot of input from what it sounds like came from a bunch of reputable electrical members of the electrical industry ... my comment are just rants I am asuming everyone agrees with the regulation?
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  2. #12
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    Had a look at all the devices in my kitchen last night.

    Mixer - Ushuko
    tin opener - 2 pin
    phone charger - 2 pin
    kettle/toaster/air fryer/microwave/convection oven/dishwasher/coffee machine and every other device has a 16 amp 3 pin socket outlet ... even the stove.

    The only plug top with a piece of plastic on the pin ... believe it or not ... the stove.

    Heres the thing ... every single socket outlet is used with a clipsal or MES socket should be deemed unsuitable for use ... why because it restricts the switch from being switched off ... the moulded plug are too big ... so I ask myself this question how the F%^&* are these appliances or sockets being supplied in SA with the SANS standards ... do you blame the elctrician because he used clipsal or MES ... or do you blame the appliance supplier.

    There was mention that sockets no longer need to be switched ... but in the post ... ther m ention of the new reg because of the safety aspect ... a child could get electricuted with small fingers while trying to remove the socket ... yet a new law is passed creating an even more dangerous ... why ... because in reality you should switch off the socket before you remove the socket ... the reason for this ... the load ... if you try removed/insert a socket while it is under load there are 2 things that happen either there is an arc which creates ahigh resistance on the pin ... and secondaly the more important concern ... the risk of the child being elctricuted to death due to the load on the circuit ( if there is no load the risk is drastically reduced)

    The more I think about this reg and other regs the more It concerns me to how much thought actually goes into them.

    Like the COC ... maybe maybe they should consult with people actually working in the industry.

    How many "hands on" electricians reading this post have ever had a document sent to them for review prior to it being implimented?

    I have only ever had 1 document sent to me via email ... and that was a couple of weeks ago ... because I sent in proposed connections for an inverter installation ... the same thing happened when load shedding started ... suddenly there was this massive inrush of generator installtions and boy were there some dodgey installations ... after getting the technical people out to site so that they could see what an installation looked like ... so the regs started improving.

    We have enough problems in this industry which require serious attention ... stop wasting time with silly regs like this and focus on the real problems ... the first one should be recording and checking random COC's ... its doesnt help create a bunch regs and nobody give a shyte about them ... knowing nobody is actually going to do anything about it.

    If you going to make regs ... at least create a standard across the board and make sure that everyone is accountable for the reg ... not just the suck who does the installation ... the wholesalers ...appliance stores everyone should be accountable for making sure the products sold to the public are up to standard and safe to use.

    rant over
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  3. #13
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    That was a first ... today I had to buy a pile of double socket outlets ... the shelves are full of normal double socket outlets ... but the brand shneider iconic range ... no stock of double socket oultets ... only the silly ones

    What a shame they have discontinued the clipsal S2000 range ... to keep the look I made the mistake of using MES switches and sockets as a replacement ... You can feel the MES is a cheap crap product ... generally I have had any problem until I fitted 2 way switches into the 4x4 grid plates ... then it just went downhill ... the 2 way switches work no problem in the 4x2 grid plates ... It seems the 4x4 grid plate is a dud ... I have even tried a different supplier ... same thing.

    Like onesto ... I had my first fail 2 weeks ago ... a 40 amp triple breaker malfunctioned ... it was still in the on position but no continuity top to bottom ... switched in on/off a couple tmes ... hitit twice with a hammer and walla it working again and still working.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post

    Like onesto ... I had my first fail 2 weeks ago ... a 40 amp triple breaker malfunctioned ... it was still in the on position but no continuity top to bottom ... switched in on/off a couple tmes ... hitit twice with a hammer and walla it working again and still working.
    Glad you still trust it to trip when required to.

    How many times have we been called out for geyser problems to find the Onesto breaker faulty.
    Replaced with Chint and never go back.

    Why Onesto decided to make their switches and plugs with rounded corners, nobody knows.

    Firstly, if you use their product on surface boxes it looks, well, ugly. The corners of the square surface box stand out a mile.
    Secondly, you cannot replace another brand with an Anesto for the same reason. Their plugs and switches do not cover the paint line.

    I avoid Anesto like poison.

    Just my personal experiences.

    Peace out ... Derek
    Last edited by Derlyn; 03-Jun-21 at 08:51 PM.

  5. #15
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    "edit" my apologies ... there is no such thing as MCE socket outlets.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  6. #16
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    MCE do the onesto range ... the switches and sockets I installed were the MES range.

    It turns out there is a problem with the 4X4 grid plates and they will be sorting the issue out and sending replacements once the mould has been modified.

    What is the issue ... the 4x4 grid plate holes are just too small for the switches ... so if you fit a single lever light switch it works but doesnt switch as easy as the 4x2 grid plate switches ... throw in a 2 way switch that when it becomes a real problem.

    I will be stripping the entire site and replacing with the schneider Iconic range ... lets hope schneider have a better quality product ... I can see why they stopped the S2000 range ... they didnt stand achancce against MES for price.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  7. #17
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    Just to p$$ me right off ... the cable on my backup light breaks so I have to fit a new plug top ... imagine that I went out and bought a new plug ... it looks like a 2 pin plug ...but has 3 pins ... I fit the plug and realise it wont plug into the the 2 pin socket ... so off to the workshop ... cut the middle pin off with the angle grinder and imagine that it doesnt fit 1 socket outlet in my entire house

    To fix this issue ... off to oline ... a strip of obo trunking fitted with 10 x 2 pin looking 3 pin socket outlets ... problem solved ... at least a 2 pin plug top fits into the 3 pin socket ...but not the other way around.

    Has anyone seen an appliance with a 2 pin looking 3 pin plug top?
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post

    Has anyone seen an appliance with a 2 pin looking 3 pin plug top?
    Yes - we were supplied with 10 extraction fan hoods for stoves with the new ZA plug about a year ago.

  9. Thanks given for this post:

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  10. #19
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    Yesterday I went shopping ... and made a point of checking every single appliance ... power tool etc for sale. not even the Samasung dedicated store had a 3 pin SANS 164-2 type plug top.

    The bad news ... not one appliance was fitted with a 3 pin SANS 164-2 plug ... yip not one.

    more than 90 % of appliances were fitted with the same 15 amp 3 pin (type SANS 164-1)

    In conclusion ... I will be attaching a note to all COC issued from today until they start selling SANS 164-2 plug tops fitted to appliaces.

    The note will exclude the clause forcing us to fit SANS 164-2 socket outlets ... for the simple reason that there is not one appliance sold in any appliances stores fitted with a SANS 164-2 plug top ... and you will loose your waranty if you cut off that massive moulded 3 pin SANS 164-1 plug top.

    As CGE indicated ... all extractor hoods are fitted with a 2 pin plug tops ... not a 3 pin plug tops ... it would be advisable to fit a 2 pin socket outlet.

    Something else to be aware of .... common sense tells me that the reasoning behind a 2 pin socket not requiring a switched outlet ... in case of emergencey you can pull the cord and it will remove the plug top from the socket outlet ... which is not possible with a SANS 164-1 type plug top ...not impossible ...but would take a pull which could result in the cable coming out the plug top.

    NOt using a switched socket outlet on a standard SANS 164-1 is another silly reg ... the reason ... it is not advisable to remove a plug top while the socket is under load ... common sense tells me that switching off a device or applicance prior to removing it from the socket outlet is good practice ... other wise we back to the same issue we had with crabtree.

    Crabtree had a switching issue many years ago ... if a kettle was plugged into the socket and the switch was operated under load a blue flash would come out the side of the switch ... when we notified them of the problem ... they did nohting about it ... word spread about the dangerous plug ... slaes dropped ... clipsal launched the S2000 range ... sales boomed as people moved away form crabtree ...
    crabtree addressed the problem by fitting a cover in the switch.

    now the S2000 range has been discontinued because MES has a cheap crap replacement range which looks similar ... and we al know the cusotomers want the cheapest crap on the market ... its good for electricians ... we are certainly not complaining ... a R15 switch ... costs R 665 to replace.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  11. #20
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    The note will exclude the clause forcing us to fit SANS 164-2 socket outlets ... for the simple reason that there is not one appliance sold in any appliances stores fitted with a SANS 164-2 plug top ... and you will loose your waranty if you cut off that massive moulded 3 pin SANS 164-1 plug top.
    Cutting the plug top off and fitting a new plug top does not cause the warranty to fall away and is covered under section 56 of the Consumer Protection Act.


    Something else to be aware of .... common sense tells me that the reasoning behind a 2 pin socket not requiring a switched outlet ...
    The perceived requirement of every socket outlet having a switch has not been written into the regulations for years , 15 odd years I would guess

    Bear in mind that the regulations are the minimal requirements and a person may request extra safety precautions.

    NOt using a switched socket outlet on a standard SANS 164-1 is another silly reg ... the reason ... it is not advisable to remove a plug top while the socket is under load ... common sense tells me that switching off a device or applicance prior to removing it from the socket outlet is good practice ... other wise we back to the same issue we had with crabtree.
    All/most appliances have there own on and off switches , kettle , toaster etc jump to mind and yes I agree switch off the load before unplugging but it does not need a switch on the socket outlet to switch off the load.

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