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Thread: When do you apply new "Edition 3" regs?

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    When do you apply new "Edition 3" regs?

    Hi guys

    Say I need to coc an existing dwelling.
    Geyser not on ELU, ceiling fans not on isolators etc.

    Do I need to alter these accordingly or is it only on new installations/buildings where this would apply?

    Thanks
    Ross

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    Hi

    Dave will give a better answer since he spends the majority of time doing inspections.

    Installation has to be inspect for compliance at the date of installation - So on an older premises you would need to go back and basically ensure it complies to fundamentals.
    The grey area comes in when an AIA inspects and says because work was done on the installation it would then need to comply to the new regs.
    Case in point would be maintenance on the installation , changing a geyser element , then the new regs would apply .

    Likewise , the house was wired in 1980 but the fan installed in 2020 , then the isolator should have been installed in 2020 under those regulations.

    To me it becomes tricky and I would make sure that within reason it complies to today's reg's - Probably the reason I don't play in that market as I out price myself and will only do it for the buyer .
    I refuse point blank to do COC's for the seller as I waste my time pricing it because he wants cheap and nasty , Dave will say compliant.

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    Morning All

    This is an excellent question.

    The older properties used the steel conduits as an earth so no earth wire in the socket outlets go to do an inspection to find pvc socket fittings?

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Graham has summed up the challenge quite neatly in his post above.

    The way we navigate the "timing" problem is we start by measuring compliance with the current, full standard. This way, at least when it comes to considering change-in-standard timing issues, we are burning time on a fairly short list. From there, I suggest the safest way is "if in doubt, apply the current standard" when making your recommendations (what most call a "faults list").

    If we are going to apply a lesser/historical standard rather than the current standard, we want clear evidence sufficient that we can justify the decision.

    Remember our "sheriff" is often not our client, but the purchaser of the property - and whomever they call in for technical assistance (which could be an AIA or knowledgeable IE/MIE or someone with a badly formed opinion).

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM View Post
    Morning All

    This is an excellent question.

    The older properties used the steel conduits as an earth so no earth wire in the socket outlets go to do an inspection to find pvc socket fittings?
    Then I would say maintenance work has been done on the installation and it must comply with the new regulation which should have been done when the sockets where changed - My opinion

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    The biggest problem with issuing COC's for existing installtions ... most inspectors dont have all the regs dating back to the 1900's ... so how can they sign off an old installaion ... if they dont have the regs to back up the last COC.s ... you would need to refer to the standard at the time and the date of such publication ... which is how inspection reports should be done ... expecially if the inspector is only doing the inspection report ... which is then handed out for quotes to repair.

    I get it all the time ... companies send inspectors out on a budget ... so the inspection report arrives at the desk ... an example ... no earth ... no location ... no reference to the regulation ... just "no earth" ... is it a class 11 fan which doesnt reuire an earth ... no mains earth ... no earth on the plug sockets ?

    Inspection reports should included the location ... the reason why it has failed with reference to the code ... but hey ... at R600 for inspection reports ... what more do you expect ... and absolutely no worries about any form of procecution ... its a circus.

    In most cases like the one I am working on at the moment ... its not the old regs that are the problem ... its the blatant disregard to the regs ... I have been taking pics as I am busy "repairing" an installation which has a COC it thing like neutral which dont even go through the main switch ...but instead ... goes directly to the neutral bar ... this installation was passed by a company which specialises in COCs.

    I went out to a job the other day ... you can see by opening the trap door and removing the DB lcover that the person who issued the COC didnt even vist the site ... generally old regs like geysers not on earth leakage and no isolators for ceiling fans are the leas tof your problems.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    If you carry out a loop impendance test at the sockets where steel conduits are used for earth continuity and it is within spec ... there shouldnt be a problem.

    Its when you arrive at a site ... a "team member" was dropped on site and left with the task of replacing all the old 5 amp sockets with pretty looking 4x4 extention boxes and plastic double socket outlets ... who doesnt know how to use a plug tester ... or wasnt left with one to check that all 3 lights come on ... then you contact the owner and he gets all defensive
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    Also.. Say there's 230v on a light fitting, but light does not work due to faulty ballast, bulb etc.. Must it be fixed for COC?
    Or does inspection stop at the connector block / terminals in light fitting?
    Sorry I'm sure it's been asked many times before

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta View Post
    Also.. Say there's 230v on a light fitting, but light does not work due to faulty ballast, bulb etc.. Must it be fixed for COC?
    Or does inspection stop at the connector block / terminals in light fitting?
    Sorry I'm sure it's been asked many times before
    The COC stops at the terminal and the light fitting is not part of the coc - For sanity sake repair because the phone call and argument will start .
    Also on the sale of a house , generally , all appliance etc must be in working order which is where the other part of the argument starts.

    We once removed a wall light in the passage way that was decoration more than for light and was fed by twin flex. Seller told us to remove he is not paying to correct the circuit. Buyer moves in and throws toy's out of the cot as he had a photo with that light there. We reinstalled the light on the sellers instructions and when it came for payment the seller was in a different town, agent wanted to know nothing nor did the transferring attorney.Account was to small to take legal action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post
    The biggest problem with issuing COC's for existing installtions ... most inspectors dont have all the regs dating back to the 1900's ... so how can they sign off an old installaion ... if they dont have the regs to back up the last COC.s ... you would need to refer to the standard at the time and the date of such publication ... which is how inspection reports should be done ... expecially if the inspector is only doing the inspection report ... which is then handed out for quotes to repair.
    Even if they have the full library of historical regs and standards, do they read them and are fully conversant with them. My proposed solution to the problems this causes is this clause in SANS 10142-1 is deleted:

    The edition of the standard that was applicable at the date of erection of an
    electrical installation is to be considered the edition defining the
    requirements applicable to that particular electrical installation.


    In the interests of safety and sanity I suggest the standard applicable should be the standard as at the date of issue of the COC.

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