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Thread: Reject plastic SABS products

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    Reject plastic SABS products

    I have been busy with a lot of PVC product installations over the past few months.

    Been encountering a LOT of reject SABS approved products (with the SABS stamp)

    By reject I mean 20 mm PVC couplings which have a 10 mm hole instead of a 20 mm hole due to the what apparently is called plastic flash ... in some cases the hole is completely blocked.

    20 mm female adaptors which has a 16 mm hole due to what seems like a worn mould.

    PVC conduit which explodes when you try bend it ... it could be a bad run of plastic or been left out in the sun for an extended period of time.

    25 mm conduit which is has inconsistant wall thickness and overal diameter ... you have to tape insulation tape onto the pipe to get the coupling to fit.

    Today a piece of 20 mm conduit ... I didnt look for an SABS mark ... inconsistant wall thickness ... as I cut the conduit it collapsed and broke.

    But the thing that has really got under my skin ... because it is suppose to be a good old product ... the CLT range of cable line trunking ... I bought some today to use as a wireway for some thick cables ... so instead of buying the other white rubbish trunking on the market supplied by most wholesalers ... I choice to rather get the expensive trunking supplied by places like cabstrut ...

    What a diappointment ... I cut a piece and was busy joining 2 pieces ... what I didnt realise and didnt think it would be a big deal ... was I had a piece from the opposite side ... I couldnt beleive it ... the F^%&*^% crap is like all the other PVC junk on the market at the moment ... the thickness is inconsistant ... the lip is not same from one side to the other ... the bead along the side just disappears ... what I would think ... anything legit plastic manufacturer would regard as reject product.

    Here the question ... are the manfucaturers aware of these rejects being sold by the wholesalers ... maybe they know that there is no control over junk sold in SA so they can get away with it ... or trying to compete against the other junk being dumped in SA ?

    is someone cleaning out the reject bin and selling the stuff out the back door to the wholesalers maybe at a better price and mixing it in with the legit stuff ... maybe the wholesalers are aware of it and mixing it in with the legit stuff ?

    Its like dealing with Hilti ... it seems they have a racket going on with machine services ... machines are collected from site and delivered back to site (every service comes with a courier fee of R200) .. .who would even know ... a machine goes in for a service ... charged a R1000 ... then sent back ... to see it is for real ... this time there is a R2000 service charge ... for parts which need to be replaced ... yet the machine has not been used ... it seems they have decided to go quiet and hope it goes away.

    anyway back to the PVC ... I can only assume there is either not longer quality control for PVC product sold in SA or there is no longer SABS standards in SA .

    Then I ask myself this question ... how are inspectors signing off COC's ... I am sure there is a section which requires the inspector to acknowledge the product installed are SABS approved ... what am I missing ?

    I suppose the only suckers who loose at the end of the day is the customer ... the rules have been modified to make it extremely difficult for the customer to lodge a complaint and actually get a result ... so they just roll over and accept whatever crap is thrown at them.

    This people is where you call out the DOL ... the OSHACT ... ECA and ECB and anyone else who makes out like they are all for the customers safety ... its all bullshyte ...BLAH BLAH BLAH.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    The SABS mark has become a joke as the SABS has no test facilities or capable people to do the tests.
    The SAPPMA (South African pipe manufacturers) has been at logger heads with SABS for years as they do not have the capability to certify products as is required by municipalities.

    As a result, a new, independent body was formed to certify manufacturing according to SANS (South African National Standards). South African Technical Auditing Services (SATAS) is accredited by South African National Accreditation Systems (SANAS) to certify manufacturers, producing products within the scope of their accreditation, to the requirements of ISO 17065. The scope of accreditation is covered on the Accreditation Certificate. SATAS will eventually replace the SABS mark.

    Unfortunately, most suppliers and wholesalers still import and sell uncertified products from China and elsewhere with no concern to quality. If you pay for crap, you will receive crap and a bad name for product failure.
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    To add to Ian's comments about poor quality; we recently inspected a gutter that was constantly overflowing in downpours. It transpired that there was a flash in the down pipe which left only a 10 mm hole for the water to run through. Neither the manufacturer or the installer picked this up. So what happened to quality control?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    Unfortunately, most suppliers and wholesalers still import and sell uncertified products from China and elsewhere with no concern to quality. If you pay for crap, you will receive crap and a bad name for product failure.
    This is the part that burns my a$$ ... I am paying the same price ... you just have to go into the store and waste more time (we all know what a waste of time a visit to the electrical wholesaler can be) checking they for the good stuff
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    I saw these on display in a Chinese shop at K90 Center, Boksburg. Note the SABS mark as well as the 20 year guarantee.Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    I saw these on display in a Chinese shop at K90 Center, Boksburg. Note the SABS mark as well as the 20 year guarantee.Click image for larger version. 

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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    This is why a reputable supplier is so important.
    A supplier is part of your value chain and can add so much to the effectiveness of your business.
    Quality of products, integrity, level of service and ability to manage difficult situations is what makes a supplier stand out.
    If you treat your supplier well and pay him on time, you may even lean on him in difficult times.

    There are so many rats and mice and it is so easy to fall into the trap of "its cheaper at the China Mall."
    However, I would rather build a relationship with a reliable supplier and pay a little more so that I can sleep at night.
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    The SABS mark has become a joke as the SABS has no test facilities or capable people to do the tests.
    The SAPPMA (South African pipe manufacturers) has been at logger heads with SABS for years as they do not have the capability to certify products as is required by municipalities.

    As a result, a new, independent body was formed to certify manufacturing according to SANS (South African National Standards). South African Technical Auditing Services (SATAS) is accredited by South African National Accreditation Systems (SANAS) to certify manufacturers, producing products within the scope of their accreditation, to the requirements of ISO 17065. The scope of accreditation is covered on the Accreditation Certificate. SATAS will eventually replace the SABS mark.

    Unfortunately, most suppliers and wholesalers still import and sell uncertified products from China and elsewhere with no concern to quality. If you pay for crap, you will receive crap and a bad name for product failure.
    This is my gripe ... you pay shyte you get shyte ... but heres the thing the price has increased from 50 cents to R1.90 and yet the standard has fallen to what I would qualify as rejects.

    I was at the wholesaler today sitting in the store sorting out my order ... I dont trust the packer ... they just throw any crap into the packet ... I sorted enough to last me 6 months.

    Apparently the parts which I would classify as rejects are coming from Matelec ... it seems they have a serious quality control issue.

    Besides the plastic distortion ... the blue and red insert in the PVC glands are so hard that you cant even compress it onto the cable.

    Today I see there is a new cable supplier ... and just as I expected ... so the quality of the cable is as bad as I expected (even with its SABS stamp of approval).

    SO what is the problem ... simple when time is money and the job should be a quick simple snip and strip ... but when you you on site and have to fight with a silly thing like trying to pull the earth wire from the twin+E ... and you have 130 cables to terminate into a DB ... it start wasting money ... considering an hourly rate of R850 per hour during the week and R1600 per hour (double time) on the weekend and I normally leave the terminations for the weekend (nice easy job for the weekend) it gets f%^& expensive to sit and strip cheap crap SABS cable.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    This is why a reputable supplier is so important.
    A supplier is part of your value chain and can add so much to the effectiveness of your business.
    Quality of products, integrity, level of service and ability to manage difficult situations is what makes a supplier stand out.
    If you treat your supplier well and pay him on time, you may even lean on him in difficult times.

    There are so many rats and mice and it is so easy to fall into the trap of "its cheaper at the China Mall."
    However, I would rather build a relationship with a reliable supplier and pay a little more so that I can sleep at night.
    I am taking about legit wholesalers ... I am fortunate ... because I dont have accounts but rather COD accounts (pay cash for my materials).

    We have got to a point that customers are paying upfront in advance to book my time ... I am at a point where people who want a quote get removed from the list ... I do estimates for my good customer who need to budget for projects ... but no quotes for random customers.

    I have considered employing more people ... but as I watch the news what is going on around me ... I am starting to wonder if its not time to start packing up and looking at relocating while I can still get something for my house and equipment.

    I have had this idea in my head that the more people who leave just make people like myself (with my experience and qualifications) more valuable ... but day by day I am watching the smart people leave ... the fact that the SA is no longer on the red list ... all I see is family ... friends and customers waving goodbye ... many people I have spoken to have no intention of investing any more money in this country.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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