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Thread: Home alterations and electrical plans question

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    Home alterations and electrical plans question

    We are busy drawing up plans to alter the house and build on. (I live in Cape Town) I see no reference to anything related to the electrical installation on the existing house plans.

    I am at a bit of a loss to understand the workings of the municipality in relation to electrical plans - surely one would have to submit some form of diagram?

    Please explain to me the process to plan the electrical installation (FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE) - Surely one can't just slap a plug and a light wherever you want!

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    We are busy drawing up plans to alter the house and build on. (I live in Cape Town) I see no reference to anything related to the electrical installation on the existing house plans.

    I am at a bit of a loss to understand the workings of the municipality in relation to electrical plans - surely one would have to submit some form of diagram?

    Please explain to me the process to plan the electrical installation (FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE) - Surely one can't just slap a plug and a light wherever you want!

    Where i live ... no electrical plan required and yes you can literally slap a plug where you want it (within the SANS regs).

    Some houses i work in have 2 plugs circuits for example ... feeding the entire house ... my house for example 17 plugs fed from 6 circuits just in the kitchen.

    Cape town has a few more bylaws than our hood ...so best you check with your electrician.

    What i do with my customers ... we sit down with a floor plan ... I make suggestions ...taking into consideration the electrical ... gas ... water etc regs ... they then take the plan and think about it for a couple days ... once we agree on the final layout ... i then forward a quote.

    If my quote is acepted ... we do a first fix.

    Using a laser ... we mark off all the points ... the walls are chased using a combination of Hilti and makita dustless chasing equipment (not 100% dustless... but way better than the standard grinder).

    Plug and light switch templates secured with the boxes are plastered into the wall to make sure all the boxes are 100 % straight while the cement sets ... very important if the wall is going to be tiled or more than one box is side by side.

    A piece of trunking installed across the roof and all the pvc pipe is linked into the trunking ... it does use more wire ... but looks way neater.

    a wire cable tray is installed on the left side of the roof above your head for the CCTV (using orange cat 5e ... to identify the CCTV wires) and another on the right for the alarm wiring ... up out of the way so that other services can move freely around in the roof ... a 12/24 multi core cable/s is installed from the main panel to junction boxes in the roof or sub control panels.

    DB's are mounted behind a passage door to prevent cupboards and other shyte covering the DB ... at a height for easy access.

    I could go on and on ... but I am gona leave it here for now.


    If a cheaper quote is required ... no dustless chasing ... no templates and no piping in the wall .. just cut slap dash twin+e in the wall thrown across the roof
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post
    Where i live ... no electrical plan required and yes you can literally slap a plug where you want it (within the SANS regs).

    Some houses i work in have 2 plugs circuits for example ... feeding the entire house ... my house for example 17 plugs fed from 6 circuits just in the kitchen.

    Cape town has a few more bylaws than our hood ...so best you check with your electrician.

    What i do with my customers ... we sit down with a floor plan ... I make suggestions ...taking into consideration the electrical ... gas ... water etc regs ... they then take the plan and think about it for a couple days ... once we agree on the final layout ... i then forward a quote.

    If my quote is acepted ... we do a first fix.

    Using a laser ... we mark off all the points ... the walls are chased using a combination of Hilti and makita dustless chasing equipment (not 100% dustless... but way better than the standard grinder).

    Plug and light switch templates secured with the boxes are plastered into the wall to make sure all the boxes are 100 % straight while the cement sets ... very important if the wall is going to be tiled or more than one box is side by side.

    A piece of trunking installed across the roof and all the pvc pipe is linked into the trunking ... it does use more wire ... but looks way neater.

    a wire cable tray is installed on the left side of the roof above your head for the CCTV (using orange cat 5e ... to identify the CCTV wires) and another on the right for the alarm wiring ... up out of the way so that other services can move freely around in the roof ... a 12/24 multi core cable/s is installed from the main panel to junction boxes in the roof or sub control panels.

    DB's are mounted behind a passage door to prevent cupboards and other shyte covering the DB ... at a height for easy access.

    I could go on and on ... but I am gona leave it here for now.


    If a cheaper quote is required ... no dustless chasing ... no templates and no piping in the wall .. just cut slap dash twin+e in the wall thrown across the roof
    Brilliant Ian , I just wish everyone would do the same. The amount of times I climb into a roof and its a spiders nest of alarm cables, network cables, CCTV cables and electrical cables is shocking.

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    The issue for me is the procedure and also who is considered eligible to to the work. As far as I am aware the work has to be signed off but does the work have to be carried out and signed off by a certified electrician. Look, I am 100% competent and able to do the work myself within legal boundaries if those boundaries are clearly documented. I have a terrible aversion to paying somebody a bag of cash to perform work that I can competently do myself.

    The telephone, TV and alarm people are a bunch of clowns and they just toss wires all over. All my electrical wiring is in conduit whether the law requires it or not. I have a serious aversion to electrical wiring that is not inside conduit.

    I have an existing DB board inside the house (in a K@K place - high up inside a cupboard in the corner) and the ideal would be to have a secondary DB in one of the new parts of the house so as to isolate that area (which may be turned into a granny flat)

    My concern is with the rules related to the positioning of light switches and plugs within walls - it seems to me that people just chase a channel and stick those things more or less wherever they want (within reason of course)

    Then there is the issue of deciding how to allocate circuits - the current house is a bit of a mess - there are 3 plug circuits sort of intertwined and maybe 2 light circuits - of course the usual stuff like the geyser and stove are separate. It looks to me as if there is no logic to the configuration of the plug circuits and I should ideally shift the workshop and the two sets of garages onto their own circuits.

    OK, so the question is this in relation to the new building: Does a certified electrician have to do the work and sign that he has done the work or can anybody do it and have it inspected by a qualified person?

    It is a given that the old building could only be inspected because nobody has a clue who worked on the house 10 years ago.

    I don't mind paying a qualified person to do meaningful work but I do mind paying exorbitant hourly rates to some idiot who doesn't know how to operate a multi meter (Yes I had to deal with those when we installed electrical equipment in kitchens in Cape Town)

    WHERE IS ANDY?????????

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    Hi Adrian. I've been a bit scarce recently, I've had a few contracts that we're finishing up with that have been keeping me very busy.

    It's weird, I've been actively reducing the scope of my business over the last few years. I sold my fabrication shop, I offloaded the marine side of the business and various other enterprises and got down to just designing and building niche commercial/industrial control panels and board repair again which is where I started several decades ago. For some reason, rather than freeing up time as intended I've got progressively busier and I seem to be further away from slowly winding down into retirement than ever.

    Anyway.....enough of my problems.

    The installation needs to done under the supervision of a qualified sparky. This means in theory the work can be done by anybody as long as it's checked every step of the way or as long as the entire installation is accessible for inspection as well as testing after it's installed ie cabling is visible etc. You could arrange with your chosen eletrician that you photograph everything before the cabling becomes buried or concealed so realistically with a thorough catalogue of photographs only a few visits might be required during the installation for visual inspections. As circuits or areas of the installation are completed further visits would be required for testing before powering up.

    I don't want to sound like I'm questioning your competence but generally I'd discourage people from installing their own electrics. As with any industry or trade there's numerous do's and dont's that often end up with DIY'ers making rookie errors which can become a big issue when the work needs certifying. Also there's much more subtle ways of doing things that have a profound effect on the general reliability of the installation, it's not things you can teach or forewarn about, it's just years of experience that mean when there's several ways a particular cat could be skinned an experienced sparky would know the best way or maybe why a particular way of installing something isn't suitable in that particular instance. Some of these tips and tricks are actually mentioned in the regs; how to make effective drip-loops at external cable entries is one that springs to mind but there are dozens of others that aren't specified.

    Bottom line is you're definately going to need an electrician to test and certify so nominate one at the design stage and make sure you're both on the same page about who is going to do what. The worst thing you could do is just dive in and do the installing yourself and expect an electrician will just do a drive-by CoC after it's finished.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    Hi Adrian. I've been a bit scarce recently, I've had a few contracts that we're finishing up with that have been keeping me very busy.

    It's weird, I've been actively reducing the scope of my business over the last few years. I sold my fabrication shop, I offloaded the marine side of the business and various other enterprises and got down to just designing and building niche commercial/industrial control panels and board repair again which is where I started several decades ago. For some reason, rather than freeing up time as intended I've got progressively busier and I seem to be further away from slowly winding down into retirement than ever.

    Anyway.....enough of my problems.

    The installation needs to done under the supervision of a qualified sparky. This means in theory the work can be done by anybody as long as it's checked every step of the way or as long as the entire installation is accessible for inspection as well as testing after it's installed ie cabling is visible etc. You could arrange with your chosen eletrician that you photograph everything before the cabling becomes buried or concealed so realistically with a thorough catalogue of photographs only a few visits might be required during the installation for visual inspections. As circuits or areas of the installation are completed further visits would be required for testing before powering up.

    I don't want to sound like I'm questioning your competence but generally I'd discourage people from installing their own electrics. As with any industry or trade there's numerous do's and dont's that often end up with DIY'ers making rookie errors which can become a big issue when the work needs certifying. Also there's much more subtle ways of doing things that have a profound effect on the general reliability of the installation, it's not things you can teach or forewarn about, it's just years of experience that mean when there's several ways a particular cat could be skinned an experienced sparky would know the best way or maybe why a particular way of installing something isn't suitable in that particular instance. Some of these tips and tricks are actually mentioned in the regs; how to make effective drip-loops at external cable entries is one that springs to mind but there are dozens of others that aren't specified.

    Bottom line is you're definately going to need an electrician to test and certify so nominate one at the design stage and make sure you're both on the same page about who is going to do what. The worst thing you could do is just dive in and do the installing yourself and expect an electrician will just do a drive-by CoC after it's finished.
    Hi, good to see that you are doing well. I think that you will do well no matter what you do - it is your nature. I agree that doing DIY is not a good idea (as you rightly point out there is more to doing it right than just pulling a couple of wires through a conduit) - I am happy to work with good people. Lets just say that I am weary of fly by night types.

    I do find it rather surprising that no mention is made of the electrical installation in the plans given that electricity is way more of a fire hazard than a wendyhouse (which has to be on the plans) I suppose it would be technically near impossible to manage on each and every plan.

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    There's never been a requirement to submit plans of final circuits of an electrical installation as far as I know. I hate to say it in case it gives them ideas but I guess the reason is that they don't tax you on the number of electrical points in a house whereas the number of bathrooms and square meterage of a dwelling can go some way to determining the size of the rates bill so they're interested in having that info on a plan. The closest thing there is to an electrical plan is the info that's required on the certificate of compliance where the number of light points, plug points, geysers, air con units etc etc must be stated on it by the person filling it out. Sometimes with higher end houses they require 'as built' plans to be submitted to the owner or the main contractor and often in commercial and industrial factory environments there are electrical reticulation and distribution plans for maintenance purposes but neither of those are a legal requirement as such, they're just in-house requirements.
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  8. Thank given for this post:

    adrianh (03-Oct-20), Dave A (07-Oct-20)

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