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Thread: Stove connection

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    Dave - maybe misheard - Just had a look at the draft Ed3 and pasted the clause from draft ED3 below - Does not appear to change
    With regards to Ians statement over the standard 3 phase socket in KFC - The clause covers that - it needs ELU.All the KFC and Hungry lions that we do have 3 phase ELU - We use the combined units and each socket has a ELU unit.


    6.16.3.3 Stove connection
    6.16.3.3.1 A stove designed to be a free-standing appliance rated
    above 16 A shall be connected through
    a) a stove coupler which shall comply with SANS 60309-1 and of
    dimensions as given in SANS 337 (a maximum of 45 A single-phase and
    16 A per phase for three phase), or
    NOTE 1 Earth leakage protection is not required for the stove circuit when a
    stove coupler is used.
    NOTE 2 For a three-phase coupler, the earth connection needs special
    consideration.
    b) a socket-outlet that complies with SANS 60309-1 (industrial type) with
    30 mA earth leakage protection, however, the use of industrial type
    socket-outlets is not recommended for stove connections.
    6.16.3.3.2 The stove connections shall be of hard wiring to the stove
    terminals, by means of a flexible arrangement, which are mechanically
    secured and be terminated on either end. When the stove is removed, the
    hard wiring has to be removed
    .
    Do you use a 30 mA ... 30 amp earth leakage with overcurrent protection ...4 mm wire and mount the sockets behind the chip/chicken frier?

    I went back and checked projects completed ... 2014 was the last KFC we worked on ... wow ... 6 years ago ... time flies ... I am asuming they have revised the standard since then ... non of the KFC's we wired had earth leakage protection on any of the 3 phase sockets.

    Do they still use those black tiles that you need to get a hilti diamond core drill to mount stuf ? We tried everything to drill holes in that black tile ... even tried a 500 ml water bottle with a small hole to cool the bit.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  2. #12
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    ians;156139]Do you use a 30 mA ... 30 amp earth leakage with overcurrent protection ...4 mm wire and mount the sockets behind the chip/chicken frier?
    Yes or use a 63 amp unit and feed to 32 amp CB - use 6sqmm and mount behind the fryers - They need to be able to unplug for cleaning and quick replacement


    Do they still use those black tiles that you need to get a hilti diamond core drill to mount stuf ? We tried everything to drill holes in that black tile ... even tried a 500 ml water bottle with a small hole to cool the bit.
    We also use the cheap tile bit that looks like an arrow - Sometimes works better than the Hilti bit -

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    6.16.3.3.2 The stove connections shall be of hard wiring to the stove
    terminals, by means of a flexible arrangement, which are mechanically
    secured and be terminated on either end. When the stove is removed, the
    hard wiring has to be removed
    .
    Clearly that's the bit Anthony was referring to. I may be mistaken, but am pretty sure he also said the coupler requirement was disappearing. Although reading his article I see this is something he has been calling for and may have been wishful thinking on his part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    Stove couplers were pretty standard items , I have not used one in a while as most are not built in ovens.
    Have attached a link to a photo of one



    https://ecasa.co.za/technical/connec...e-regulations/
    I phone pretty much every wholesaler within pretty big radius of Jo'burn (30 plus including the voltex, acdc dynamics, ARB etc plus a load of independents). None could get me (if they had even heard of) a stove coupler.

    Phoned ECA, as I also saw their articles on this subject, and asked where am i supposed to get them from. Said they hadn't seen one in years - apparently the manufacturer had closed long ago. Asked for suggestion and was told its very hard to get them so they said best to use industrial socket via double pole with earth leakage protection.

    For the flats which have free standing stoves, that's what I'm doing.

    Sorted.

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    Hi All

    Can anyone explain to this toppie why a free standing stove connected via a stove coupler need not be on earth leakage, but the same stove connected via an industrial plug ( welding plug as I know it to be known ) must be on earth leakage. I am trying, without success, to see the logic.

    Here, I am talking about a domestic installation where the chances of any other appliance being plugged into the socket is pretty much close to zero.

    Peace out ... Derek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derlyn View Post
    Hi All

    Can anyone explain to this toppie why a free standing stove connected via a stove coupler need not be on earth leakage, but the same stove connected via an industrial plug ( welding plug as I know it to be known ) must be on earth leakage. I am trying, without success, to see the logic.

    Here, I am talking about a domestic installation where the chances of any other appliance being plugged into the socket is pretty much close to zero.

    Peace out ... Derek.
    The simplest answer ... the same reason a dedicated plug doesnt have to be on earth leakage ... it is designed specifically for a stove ... there are other reasons ... like it is a stationary appliance (not moved around) etc etc ... but then I ask why a geyser has to be on earth leakage ... its not connected to any type of plug ... standard or dedicated.

    It seems the same people are making the covid rules as they go ... i hear families are hiring a taxi so that they can all sit shoulder to shoulder with the windows open and head to the casino to spend time with each other ...just smile and suck it up ... unless you have connection in the right place

    "I changed it to I ask"
    Last edited by ians; 15-Jul-20 at 05:53 PM.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingsparks View Post
    I phone pretty much every wholesaler within pretty big radius of Jo'burn (30 plus including the voltex, acdc dynamics, ARB etc plus a load of independents). None could get me (if they had even heard of) a stove coupler.

    Phoned ECA, as I also saw their articles on this subject, and asked where am i supposed to get them from. Said they hadn't seen one in years - apparently the manufacturer had closed long ago. Asked for suggestion and was told its very hard to get them so they said best to use industrial socket via double pole with earth leakage protection.

    For the flats which have free standing stoves, that's what I'm doing.

    Sorted.
    I am inquisitive by nature so made a call to my go to supplier in PE , IRC Lighting, and inquired as to availability of stove couplers. He has a couple on the shelf and did not think it was a problem to get.
    They phoned Procast , who manufactured them, only to discover that they closed their doors today after 73 years in business .Sounds like economy , load-shedding and the nail in the coffin, being Covid, forced the decision.

    Now there is definitely a problem in getting Stove couplers and I guess the regulations may have to be looked at unless somebody buys the machinery and continues making.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post
    The the simplest answer ... the same reason a dedicated plug doesnt have to be on earth leaakge ... there eare othe reasons ... like it is a stationary appliance (not moved around) etc etc ... but then you ask why a geyser has to be on earth leakage ... its not any type of plug ... standard or dedicated ... seems the same people are making the covid rules as they go ... i hear families are hiring taxis so that they can all sit shoulder to shoulder with the windows open and head to the casino to spend time with each other ...just smile and suck it up ... unless you have connection in the right place
    Hi Ians

    I don't think you understood my question. I never mentioned a geyser. I know geysers must be on earth leakage.
    My question revolved around a stove being connected by two different types of plugs, the one having to be through earth leakage and the other not.
    My question is why ? What's the difference?


    Peace out ... Derek

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derlyn View Post
    Hi Ians

    I don't think you understood my question. I never mentioned a geyser. I know geysers must be on earth leakage.
    My question revolved around a stove being connected by two different types of plugs, the one having to be through earth leakage and the other not.
    My question is why ? What's the difference?


    Peace out ... Derek
    The stove coupler can only be used for a stove and there is no grey area - Stove only

    Allow a " Welding socket " to be used on a stove circuit only without earth leakage and the grey area is formed and next thing the factory 3 phase Welding sockets are not on earth leakage because we thought it was going to be for a stove. That is generally the SA way of greying things out to work in our favour

    I have put through the suggestion that we allow a " clocked" " welding socket " to be allowed for a stove without ELU

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    The stove coupler can only be used for a stove and there is no grey area - Stove only

    Allow a " Welding socket " to be used on a stove circuit only without earth leakage and the grey area is formed and next thing the factory 3 phase Welding sockets are not on earth leakage because we thought it was going to be for a stove. That is generally the SA way of greying things out to work in our favour

    I have put through the suggestion that we allow a " clocked" " welding socket " to be allowed for a stove without ELU
    GCE

    Thank you, brother. Much appreciated.

    Peace out ... Derek.

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