Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Land Appropriation Cyril Ramaphosa Dont do it!!

  1. #1
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Posts
    205
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 37 Times in 26 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Land Appropriation Cyril Ramaphosa Dont do it!!

    I met your personal assistant, who served with me on the panel of legal experts as regards Carte Blanch coverage of the Oscar Pistorius Trial. I cannot believe that she is advising you to even consider grabbing land without compensation.
    Such course of action is illegal under international law, United Nations conventions and policies of international agencies such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. In addition the human rights sector expressly forbids this.
    This now universal prohibition is founded on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that the World got after two (2) World Wars and the Holocaust. This paradigm shift in human culture is the direct product of millions having spilled their blood and given their lives. It is a most precious commodity that is simply not negotiable.
    1. Grabbing property from Whites will, in the first instance be an express violation of Article 7 of the UDHR that expressly states ---
    All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
    2. It will also be an express violation of Article 2 -
    Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
    3. It will also be an express violation of Article 17 -
    (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
    (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
    4. The above rights are limited in terms of Article 29 ONLY by
    law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
    In so far as this Article is being proffered as justification for land grabbing the short jurisprudential argument is that there is nothing moral or good or democratic about grabbing land from innocent humans without compensation. Yes, Whites are in disproportionate possession of land. However, they are no more to blame for this than those suffering from land hunger. Neither groups can be held responsible for the capriciousness of history.
    CONSEQUENCES ---- If you start grabbing ln without compensation the World, led by the UN and its agencies, WILL react to the extreme detriment of South Africa. Understand that international agencies, such and the IMF and the World Bank, now have policies that expressly bind them to react to the detriment of any country violating the sacred Articles of the UDHR. They do not have a choice.
    South Africa will become a pariah State overnight, as did Zimbabwe.
    The Consequences will be emphatic and disastrous.
    Is that what we want?
    Have we really not learned anything from the judgment of our own African Judges who sat as the SADC Tribunal and ruled against this as regards Robert Mugabes land grabs??
    Dont do it.
    It is madness to even consider it.

    PS: --- why do you think, imagine or suppose Emmerson Mnangagwa has now committed to compensation for the White farmers that were dispossessed of land???
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cyril_land_grabs.jpg 
Views:	70 
Size:	80.2 KB 
ID:	6951  
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Witbank
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    It will create a Garden of Eden - Ramaphosa



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Cape Twon
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    You need to take some time to to understand 1) just how tenous Rhamaphosa's grip in the ANC is (he reiterated land grabs tow days ago0 2) how precarious the finances of the ANC are 3) What are the motivations of their rural support base. Your arguments are all from the point of view of the property owner. To beat this problem, you have to start viewing it from the position of the non owner. To them all your arguments sound like a a lot of reasons to keep them away from improving themselves.

  4. #4
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Posts
    205
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 37 Times in 26 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Philipdc View Post
    You need to take some time to to understand 1) just how tenous Rhamaphosa's grip in the ANC is (he reiterated land grabs tow days ago0 2) how precarious the finances of the ANC are 3) What are the motivations of their rural support base. Your arguments are all from the point of view of the property owner. To beat this problem, you have to start viewing it from the position of the non owner. To them all your arguments sound like a a lot of reasons to keep them away from improving themselves.
    Mine is not "an argument".
    It is a reality check.
    When you have a problem you cannot try to fix it in a way that is going to give you a devastatingly bigger problem.
    It will be a case of "the medicine killing the patient".

    I am Zimbabwean born.
    I am in South Arica because we lost everything.
    Had we saved every penny that we ever earned and eaten grass, our savings and investments would have been worth 3 packs of 18 roll toilet paper.
    We were able to scoot into SA when Zim imploded ... as have about 2 million other Zimboons.
    Where are South Afruicans gonna scoot to??

    There are perfectly lawful and sensibe ways to address the vexed issue of land.
    Politicians are been hypocritical about the issue and the ANC is using it as a stick to beat Whites with so as to maintain a hold on the Black vote.
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

  5. #5
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Bushbuckridge
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    We need land for all citizens equally. Those with land must share regardless of the out come land we need it. We are writing the future not redoing history.

  6. #6
    Email problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by HONLEY View Post
    We need land for all citizens equally. Those with land must share regardless of the out come land we need it. We are writing the future not redoing history.
    I used to think that once the leadership changed there would be a shift in the mind set.
    I was wrong...

    Land as a factor of production especially in agriculture has become lower.
    Ergo, energy, fertilizer, seeds, capital equipment, all of that as a 'factor of production' are necessary
    for land to be worth something. Say hypothetically for 1 ton of wheat to be sold at 200 dollars you
    probably need to input 160 dollars of those things one of which is the cost of land, which would probably
    be around 10% or so for it to be reasonable for those deploying that capital to even consider anything.

    Land as a way to finance those inputs of production once you own it via credit line access and otherwise
    is important if that access can provide said funds. However given the situation you currently have the likelihood
    of production ending once land confiscation occurs is fairly high simply because capital will not flow nor
    be husbanded to keep production going since 're-distribution' of the end products and other risk factors
    are likely to become too high.

    Look on the bright side if the banking system implodes and land is taken over a few times. Very soon it will become cheap for anyone to buy it. Whether they do it is another story but imagine for a $100 you will be able to buy 100 acres, isn't it great. (sarcastic) You won't even need financing or anything.

  7. #7
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    21,164
    Thanks
    3,073
    Thanked 2,475 Times in 2,079 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    At times I wonder how much the free housing giveaway has undermined the general value of property.
    That's a good thing, of course. Unless you're a property owner.

    Similarly among all the talk about why people are deserving of being given land, I see very little said about who the land is going to be taken from, and why they deserve to lose their land without compensation.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

    Alcocks | Electrical Services | Hygiene Services & Washroom Products | Pest Control & Entomological Services

  8. #8
    Email problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    At times I wonder how much the free housing giveaway has undermined the general value of property.
    That's a good thing, of course. Unless you're a property owner.

    Similarly among all the talk about why people are deserving of being given land, I see very little said about who the land is going to be taken from, and why they deserve to lose their land without compensation.
    sometimes it benefits landlords like it does to a degree here in NYC. ergo the subsidy creates a floor, demand is kept up, so everyone who does not fit the subsidy criteria has to pay a higher rent. sometimes those benefits are shifted from landlords to those whom provide construction or elsewhere.

    i think you are looking at it from an ideological perspective. my sense is it has a deeper motive longer term. if i create a very unstable society which has rich natural resources those resources will be worth based off of the political and economic risk endemic to the society at large. bbee has essentially closed off foreign investment for anything other than exempted industries or major projects where exemptions via government bilateral treaties can be garnered. essentially an artificial environment via political influence that made the existing investments more valuable and new ones less likely.

    theoretically if there is devolution of power in this issue there would essentially be a significant impetus for movement. imagine each province got the power to determine how it goes about said issue, what you have is essentially a centrifuge of political discontent channeled into land settlement and thus migrations. eventually there would of course be disillusionment when the land you get doesn't automatically sprout trees that produce money.

    sorta bullish on cape province not really on anything else. if land is taken one possible outcome is for long term leases to Chinese companies which would import workers and receive ready arable lands expand production. essentially say 5000 hectares is taken and given to 100 black farmers whom each organize into a coop farm which then leases said land to a Chinese company, which essentially would make those farmers "Rentiers". it wouldn't work for all of society but a large segment of the bureaucracy may theoretically not just profit but have long term incomes tied to external clients, officially, and legally.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_state

    lots of things to think about

Similar Threads

  1. Spelling was responsible for the wrong message from Cyril
    By wynn in forum South African Politics Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14-Dec-13, 01:38 PM
  2. Someone doesn't like Cyril!
    By Dave A in forum South African Politics Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 19-Jan-13, 06:48 PM
  3. Land swop
    By QRS in forum Accounting Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-Jan-13, 12:11 PM
  4. T Manuel: Appropriation Bill First Reading debate
    By I Robot in forum South African Politics Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 21-Mar-08, 12:13 PM
  5. Change the BEE rules - Cyril Ramaphosa
    By Dave A in forum BEE and Employment Equity Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-Nov-06, 02:02 PM

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •