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Thread: Spam telephone calls

  1. #11
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    I decided to read through the marketing practices part of the NCA to figure out what the story is with unsolicited calls.

    The way I read it is that you must be able to opt-out of any marketing when you enter into a credit agreement. I can't see any reason why they would not be allowed to call you if they have your contact details, unless you have specifically opted out. Banks have been doing this for ages anyway, so I don't really see how this changes anything.

    Here is the relevant section,

    (6) When entering into a credit agreement, the credit provider must present to the consumer a statement of the following options and afford the consumer an opportunity to select any of those options:

    (a) To decline the option of pre-approved annual credit limit increases as provided for in section 119(4), if the agreement is a credit facility; and

    (b) to be excluded from any-

    (i) telemarketing campaign that may be conducted by or on behalf of the credit provider;

    (ii) marketing or customer list that may be sold or distributed by the credit provider, other than as required by this Act; or

    (iii) any mass distribution of email or sms messages.

    (7) A credit provider-

    (a) must maintain a register in the prescribed manner and form of all options selected by consumers in terms of subsection (6); and

    (b) must not act in a manner contrary to an option selected by a consumer in terms of subsection (6).
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  2. #12
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marq View Post
    When I queried him on ethics and source he says I have a web site and doing business out there and therefore I am fair game for his email spam list. So the emails get ugly, but I still get his spam. He says you did not push the opt out button. Push it and I'll go away. So I click it and I get the sorry to see you go BS - but I still get the emails.

    The act is so open to abuse - it seems as long as you have the opt option available, thats all thats required. I can email you time and time again and declare the source to be your email address on your web site.
    It took me a little time to figure out how to stop that from happening given the little mix of programs I use to concoct our mailing list each week. But the mailer itself has a very powerful unsubscribe functionality. Unsubscribe and it "blacklists" the email address. If it is re-subscribed in a subsequent list update - it still won't send to that email address. Dead. Over. No more.

    It's partly why I've made the unsubscribe method via changing the "Receive emails from Admin" method. At least you've got the option to re-opt in if you choose to. The other benefit is if you happen to forward the email there is no possibility of the recipient unsubscribing you as the unsubscribe option area is password protected to your profile.

    It adds a step to the process of making sure that only the right people receive the mail, but it's worth it.

    I tend to giggle a bit at the modern trend of "click this link if you're going to forward the email" and the "reasons" they give. Basically, it's two real reasons - so that someone else can't unsubscribe you (by accident or intentionally), and of course, so they can track that new email address you're forwarding to

  3. #13
    Platinum Member Chatmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marq View Post
    He says you did not push the opt out button. Push it and I'll go away. So I click it and I get the sorry to see you go BS - but I still get the emails.
    Why don't you try contacting www.spamcops.com They have caused some of my customers major problems in the past for doing the exact same thing.
    Roelof Vermeulen (Entrepreneurship in large organizations)
    Roelof Vermeulen| Rock flaps south africa

  4. #14
    Silver Member Eugene's Avatar
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    Guys, I have also received numerous of these telemarketing sales - be in credit cards, add-on insurance, a new vacuum cleaner - the works. Have to admit that most of them are great salespeople over the phone with an answer to most of the duck-and-dive answers like, I'm not interested, mail me the details etc.

    Wednesday this week a lady phoned me up from or representing a major bank (no names, but it is the green bank) which was accually very good in pitching the whole product. She would just not accept NO for an answer. So I decided to change my strategy and asked her her name and do a little role reversal. It turned out that she was working for the telemarketing company now for a couple of years and was unmarried. Now at this stage compliments were flying on my side on how good she really is on the telephone and I casually asked her what kind of underwear she was wearing and that while she was so good over the phone if she is not interested in phone sex. Needless to say, she put the phone down and no sale was concluded.

  5. #15
    Full Member Ann Williams's Avatar
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    SA law and unsolicited marketing - of all varieties

    There is hope!

    Our legislation actually provides for 'unsubscribing' (being taken off of a list) for all means of unsolicited marketing - except for flyers in our postboxes (don't ask me how they get away with it when everyone else has to obey the rules).

    Basically what the law says is:

    1. Yes, marketers may solicit anyone who has given tacit approval. Now before you say: "But I didn't give anyone permission!", what is defined as 'approval' is if you have put your contact details into the public domain. You could have done this by allowing your telephone number to be published in the phone book or putting your e-mail address in an advert in the newspaper; or even that you have put your details on the internet in a non-password protected section. Ie. if you don't want to be marketed at, you need to become almost anonymous.

    2. However, you are legally entitled to insist that you are removed from the list of any company that does solicit you and never be contacted again.

    Now, this is not only for e-mails... Many years ago in the dark ages before the internet I used to work for a company that sent post to hundreds of thousands of people asking them to support various charities (such as the cancer association and guide dogs etc). This was all done on the same basis.

    If it is an e-mail, just unsubscribe! Don't write snotty letters. (I've seen the one where the e-mail law is quoted - which I have a little laugh about, as as Duncan has already said, that particular law which people try to use as a big stick actually has nothing to do with whether one is allowed to send out unsolicited e-mails, and is to do with e-mail credit agreements.)

    If it is by snail-mail. Return the letter along with your own letter asking to be taken off of their list. (Keep a copy.)

    So if you get a telemarketing phone call from a company that you don't want to hear from again, just stop them in their tracks, tell them that as allowed for by SA law, you would like them to take your details off of their list - and make sure that you get the details of both the company they are representing as well as those of the call centre. (As almost anyone who has ever made a cold canvassing call for their business before can tell you, it's a tough job - don't make it worse for them.)

    If the same people contact you again - tell them that you will sue them if they continue to call you.

    From what I have seen, the big problem here is not actually with South African call centres or companies - it's with the overseas operators (and with skype-type technologies these days it's amazing how much of it is done from across the waters). Basically they just don't care!

  6. #16
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    My major bugbear at the moment is some crowd that calls me from Japan once a month or more. Trying to get me to by shares in the next great Chinese telecoms prospect last time I had a connection good enough to understand what the heck they were trying to say. A combination of a tricky accent and an overloaded Skype call-out connection makes for what can only be described as a particularly irritating noise.
    Eish, I got one of these today. They clearly got my contact details from my website. Real waste of time, even though I didn't stay on the line for long (because this great forum warned me about these calls! ) The quality of the call suddenly went downhill very quickly. Sorry, not interested, goodbye...beeeeep.
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  7. #17
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    I got another one of these today, except the call quality was excellent, and the guy seemed to be British. He said he was calling from Maxon (not sure on spelling) in Japan, with some oil/gas options scheme.

    Anyone had anything similar? I couldn't find any info on "Maxon" on the net that seemed to match the info from the call.
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  8. #18
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    The NCA is only applicable to REGISTERED credit providers.
    Thus you can only report a bank or other credit provider providing they are registered.
    The National Credit Regulator will only enforce the act on registered providers of credit should they contravene the act.
    There are many loopholes so you might still get a call or two from vodacom offering you a new credit card, or you might get a card in the mail with the words USE ME in bold .....

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