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Thread: Do circuit breakers need to be SABS APPROVED

  1. #11
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    I'll double check when I've got some time to comb through the CBI datasheets but I'm pretty sure your DB has no main breaker capable of providing overload protection for the incoming supply. This would be an immediately hazardous installation, not to mention illegal. Please wait for confirmation though, there is a chance I'm wrong.
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    Platinum Member SilverNodashi's Avatar
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    R14K sounds like a LOT of money to replace a couple of circuit breakers!

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    andy beat me to it . there is no overload protection on the main switch. its an isolator.

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    AndyD (18-Jul-16)

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Lol, Bergie beat me to confirming, I checked the datasheets and it's definitely only an isolator that's rated to 60Amp and it doesn't provide overload protection, the earth leakage breaker is also the type without overload protection so it's game set and match, no main overload protection so the setup you've shown is unacceptable.

    I'd be interested to see the compliance certificate they issued if this photo was taken after they've done the work.
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  6. #15
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilberto Silva View Post
    .....they did nothing to the DB board and they were replacing all the switches so that I won't have problems for the next 20yrs.
    When they came back all the parts looked basically the same as what I already had except no SABS approval.......
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    R14K sounds like a LOT of money to replace a couple of circuit breakers!
    If they just replaced the existing circuit breakers with new replacements then yes, it sounds way overpriced to me as well.

    There's a few things not adding up for me, firstly the price is either extortionate or they did a lot of work that's not been mentioned. Secondly why would the old circuit breakers all require replacing with new unless there was damage evident? Thirdly how did replacing the earth leakage circuit breaker 'fix' an earth leakage tripping fault? If the earth leakage breaker was tripping it's a 99% certainty it was working and there was a circuit with a fault somewhere unless by some small chance they ramp tested the RCD and it failed.

    I'm at the stage with this where I'd recommend that a licensed and registered electrician is paid to firstly make the DB safe by installing an appropriate main OCPD device and secondly a report is done on the DB along with some quick circuit test results. I know it sounds like throwing good money after bad but without it you'll never know what other unsafe things there may be.

    **edit**
    Gilberto, why don't you email the same photos you attached in post #10 to CBI and ask them why there's no SABS approval stamped on their circuit breakers? I'm sure they'll be happy to confirm whether or not they're genuine (not counterfeit) and whether they're SABS approved.
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  7. #16
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    I must comment on the main switch.

    I am not sure about different parts of the country but in KZN east coast the meter box has a circuit breaker feeding the installation which offers protection for the supply cable. Therefore any combined DB load over the circuit breaker rating (normally 60A for a domestic installation) the meter box circuit breaker will trip. By having a mains circuit breaker installed at the DB all that will be accomplished is that it may be more convenient to have the breaker trip at the house rather than the suppliers side. However, having the switch at the DB doesnt always mean it will trip there and not at the suppliers side.

    As far as I am aware SANS does not require another mains circuit breaker at the DB, only a double pole disconnector.

    I also noticed that there is a surge arrester installed - not a requirement but may be beneficial.

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    ACEsterhuizen (19-Jul-16)

  9. #17
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    on a normal db and sub db it is acceptable to have your overload protection upstream, but outside meter boxes are not meant for the user to go reset circuit breakers etc.
    that would probably be a supplier requirement and not a sans requirement.

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    Perhaps it is different in different parts of the country. Down here the meter box has a rod out the bottom of the box with the other end over the circuit breaker lever for the purpose of switching the breaker on should it trip.

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    ACEsterhuizen (19-Jul-16)

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    SANS 10142 does not dictate directly for a main circuit breaker (over current protection or OPD) to be mounted inside the consumer DB Box. Here are the criteria though: (it does however, compel the installation of a switch-disconnector in or adjacent to the consumer db board) In fact, if a Circuit Breaker does not comply with Clause 4 for Switch Disconnectors, it shall not be used a switch disconnector:

    Clause 4:

    Circuit-breakers used
    as switch-disconnectors
    (isolators) In < 125 A and Icu < 10 kA VC 8036a plus 4.8 of SANS 152d, or
    VC 8036a plus SANS 60947-2

    (ed. 2.1 or later ed.)
    (It must have that certification^^^)
    Circuit-breakers used
    as switch-disconnectors
    (isolators)
    In < 125 A and Icu > 10 kA SANS 556-1, or
    SANS 156e plus 4.8 of SANS 152d, or
    SANS 60947-2 (ed. 2) plus 4.8
    of SANS 152d, or
    SANS 60947-2 (ed. 2.1 or later ed.)
    Circuit-breakers used
    as switch-disconnectors
    (isolators)
    125 A < In < 1 000 A SANS 556-1, or
    SANS 156e plus 4.8 of SANS 152d, or
    SANS 60947-2 (ed. 2) plus 4.8 of
    SANS 152d, or
    SANS 60947-2 (ed. 2.1 or later ed.)
    Circuit-breakers used
    as switch-disconnectors
    (isolators)
    1 000 A < In SANS 556-1, or
    SANS 60947-2 (ed. 2) plus 4.8 of
    SANS 152d, or
    SANS 60947-2 (ed. 2.1 or later ed.)


    6.8 Circuit-breakers:

    6.8.1 Circuit-breakers used as main or local switch-disconnectors

    A circuit-breaker that is used as a main or local switch-disconnector (see
    6.9.4) shall comply with the relevant requirements of a standard given in
    clause 4 for switch-disconnectors, or, alternatively, a switch-disconnector
    shall be positioned on the supply side of the circuit-breaker.

    6.7.1.3 Conductors that form part of an installation may be protected by
    the supplier's overcurrent protective device, provided that:

    a) the supplier agrees,
    b) the supplier’s protective device complies with clause 4, (all the tables)
    c) the user has access to the device, and
    d) such protective device complies with the requirements of 6.7.2.1.

    6.7.2.2 Except as allowed in 6.7.2.3, an overload protective device shall
    be installed:

    a) along a conductor where the current capacity of the conductor is
    reduced,
    b) where the thermal rating of a disconnecting device could be exceeded
    (summation of ratings), and
    c) where the thermal rating of an earth leakage protection device
    not provided with integral overcurrent protection, could be exceeded.

    6.7.2.3 The overload protective device may be installed at any point in
    the conductor run that it protects, provided that:


    a) there is no branch circuit or socket-outlet between the point where
    there is a reduction in the conductor's current-carrying capacity and
    the point where the device is installed, and

    b) the entire length of the conductor is protected against short-circuit,

    or

    c) the conductor is:
    1) of length not exceeding 5 m,
    2) so installed as to minimize the risk of overload or fault in its
    operating condition,
    3) not near flammable materials, and
    4) not likely to cause harm to a person in the event of a fault.

    and as for "disconnecting devices" for each installation:

    6.9.1 General

    6.9.1.1 Each installation shall have one disconnecting device to
    disconnect the entire installation, except in the case of multisupplies or
    more than one transformer supplying the installation where each supply
    shall have its own disconnecting device. There shall be a notice fixed next
    to each such disconnecting device indicating that the installation has
    more than one main switch-disconnector.

    6.9.2.2 In the case of a single-phase circuit, the disconnecting device
    shall disconnect live and neutral. In the case of a multiphase circuit, the
    disconnecting device shall disconnect all the phase conductors but need
    not disconnect the neutral conductor in an installation connected to a
    supply system in which the neutral conductor is earthed direct.

    imho. (and applicable to "new" installations)

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    Dave A (19-Jul-16)

  14. #20
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    Thank you guys. I've had no electricity for 3 days, as things couldn't get better, not due to my installation though
    I did send the images to CBI, over the phone he did say that they are not branding all their circuit breakers. I'll paste what he said in a email, but he did also mention over the phone that their is specific things in the circuit breakers that he would know definitely its CBI parts but couldn't divulge those details to me. Here goes his email to me

    Hi Gilberto,
    Thanks for contacting CBI.
    Based on what I see in the photos these units do appear to be our units.

    Interestingly on the list value of the units, the value is R2043-00 ex vat.

    I do have a concern that there does not appear to a main circuit breaker offering overall over-current on the DB?
    There might well be a municipal circuit breaker which would trip on these events but I don’t believe this to be convenient or legal?
    "

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