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Thread: Basic Compliance requirements

  1. #21
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stef-Lec View Post
    Point of consumption is the terminal of of fixed appliance except if powered from a socket
    That's not what the definition says. Read it again -

    "point of consumption" means any point of outlet or the supply terminals of machinery which is not connected to a point of outlet and which converts electrical energy to another form of energy: Provided that in the case of machinery which has been installed for any specific purpose as a complete unit, the point of consumption shall be the supply terminals which have been provided on the unit of machinery for that purpose;

    In your situation I'd be inclined to say the point of consumption is the supply terminals of the control panel - i.e. your "mini-db" (being the machinery's control panel).

    Of course we all recognise the moment that "mini-db" also supplies something else, like outside lighting, a gazebo, the gate motor, etc. it now becomes a sub-db and the whole game moves to a different level.

    If you don't consider the pool appliance (normally the pump and the pool light) as a complete unit of machinery installed for a specific purpose, then the "control panel" must actually be a sub-db.

    This seems to put me at odds with Andy, which does concern me some. The crux would seem to be what constitutes a "complete unit of machinery", perhaps?
    Last edited by Dave A; 26-Dec-16 at 12:49 PM.

  2. #22
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Lol, I wouldn't worry about being at odds with me, I'm certainly not an expert and am usually at odds with myself from one day to another. I almost never get involved with this area of electrics (domestic and CoC's) so take anything I say with a pinch of salt.

    point of outlet
    termination of an electrical installation, which has been provided for
    connecting any electrical machinery without the use of a tool, provided
    that no connection to a busbar is deemed to be a point of outlet. (See
    socket-outlet, 3.72)
    The point of outlet for the pool installation was a socket in the bedroom therefore the supply terminal of the machinery is connected to a point of outlet therefor by the definition in 3.55 the supply terminal of the machinery or any point within the pool control box can't be the 'point of consumption'.

    As you say, whether you class a swimming pool a fixed appliance installation along with its light, possibly a chlorinator etc as 'machinery which has been installed for any specific purpose as a complete unit'. The COC itself classes a pool as a fixed appliance but the contention for me with this definition is the 'complete unit' part. It would suggest all components would be have been supplied together as a complete unit and all would be interlinked via common controls. A pool pump and possibly a chlorinator and even a 24hr/7day timer switch could be a 'complete unit' because they're usually interlocked to operate together so an installation consisting of only those items the panel that supplies them could be a control panel. Problem comes with the light with isolating transformer on its own OCPD and own switch which would be an autonomous/extraneous item from the pool machinery although the luminaire itself is an integral part of the pool so would this make the pool box a subDB? Honestly I don't know.

    It would be a similar conundrum with a geyser that has a retrofit energy monitoring gizmo attached to it. Invariably these are supplied from the geyser isolator switch but often they wouldn't pass the 'being installed as a complete unit' requirement so would they be classed as being part of the geyser or would they be a separate fixed appliance meaning the geyser isolator is actually supplying two fixed appliances?
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  3. #23
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    My thinking is that a pool DB should always be fed directly from a DB, and class it as a SUB DB.
    My reasoning is that on the COC it only lists a POOL PUMP, not POOL DB, so in my mind it should be listed as a separate DB.

    Maybe I dont need to go that far but the SANS 10142 is deemed as a minimum standard so if it is safer or as deemed by me, better, no one can complain.

  4. #24
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionels View Post
    .....but the SANS 10142 is deemed as a minimum standard so if it is safer or as deemed by me, better, no one can complain.
    I like the way you think, I agree the code is and should considered be an absolute minimum standard and there's no reason a risk assessment by a competant person shouldn't result in a higher standard being required if necessary.
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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    What is the compliance standard for manufacturing of LED light fittings.
    A friend is manufacturing a really sexy housing from extruded aluminium, but is uncertain about the requirements for the LED lights fitted inside the housing.

    Can someone please help?
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

  6. #26
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Maybe contact SABS and ask what the testing/certification requirements would be https://www.sabs.co.za/Sectors-and-S...tronics_pt.asp
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    Full Member markthespark's Avatar
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    Hi guys it seems that most of the topics on the forum are items related to compliance. It would really be helpful if the inspectors of the inspection authorities would join the forum and assist us all with these confusing issues.How do we get them to participate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by markthespark View Post
    Hi guys it seems that most of the topics on the forum are items related to compliance. It would really be helpful if the inspectors of the inspection authorities would join the forum and assist us all with these confusing issues.How do we get them to participate?
    Putting yourself on a public forum and opening up to all these issues would be suicide.

    Getting the correct info about the regs is like trying to squeeze water out of a stone.

    In the perfect world SABS would have a help line. They make the rules they should have people who are employed and trained to offer 24 hours (or at least during office hours) guidance to inspectors.

    The fact that people have to resort to social media platforms like this to get advice is a clear indication of how f&*%&* the system is.

    You can always follow the sparks edition of the regs, they dont even get it right.

  10. #29
    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    What is the compliance standard for manufacturing of LED light fittings.
    A friend is manufacturing a really sexy housing from extruded aluminium, but is uncertain about the requirements for the LED lights fitted inside the housing.

    Can someone please help?

    Have him print "Made in China" on it and he will be good to go.

  11. #30
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    I know you guys are talking about interpreting of the regs rather than the regs themselves so on a slight tangent, I've wondered for a while and never got around to asking, does anyone know if the SANS regulations are available to be accessed for free viewing at public libraries? This is the case in the UK, (in theory) you can view all the British Standard regs at any library. In practice they're only available at the main libraries but none the less they're available for public viewing, just wondered if it was the same here.....
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