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Thread: The truth about South Africa

  1. #11
    Gold Member Phil Cooper's Avatar
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    The main problem we now have is the culture of entitlement.

    Of you look at the far East, countries like Malaysia, they have NO raw materials, etc., but have to import the loy. Over a couple of decades they have gone from broke to some of the richest countries in the world?

    Why? It is called a work ethic.

    Their workers work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, to produce the goods from the imported raw materials. They earn a pittance, which makes their goods very competitive world wide.

    While NOT insinuating that those working hours are right, we are at the completely opposite side of the tipping scale.

    We are the opposite side of the balance pole to Malaysia. We have un-dreamed of potential - a large work force, great climate, a great internal infrastructure (albeit deteriorating), etc.

    So why are we not en route to richness, growth and a great furure for all?

    Simple.

    Unions demand higher and higher pay and benefits for their members, and less and less working time: less production for more benefits.

    They cannot, and will not, see that this makes us LESS competitive in world markets (the clothing industry is good example - even the ANC import T-Shirts from China for their functions as the local versions are too expensive.

    They want local shops to only stock locally-manufactured goods to support the local (expensive) industries. They won't see that their members (already below/just on) the breadline, cannot afford to pay, say, 35% - 40% more for the same shirt they could get the previous week from China - etc.

    In a nutshell - we need a decent work ethic, with people's income linked to production.

    If a person does not produce, be able to fire him/her, and replace with a productiove person.

    The opposite of where people who are dishonest, and are caught stealing red handed, cannot be fired, but Unions will support them and forse employees to keep them on.

    And then they wonder why foreign investment goes elsewhere. And even local investors are moving to Botswana or Lesotho. They "don't understand it". Do you?

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  3. #12
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Cooper View Post
    If a person does not produce, be able to fire him/her, and replace with a productiove person.

    The opposite of where people who are dishonest, and are caught stealing red handed, cannot be fired, but Unions will support them and forse employees to keep them on.
    Our problems regardless of their complexities can be solved easily without having to resort to slavery. In some African countries a young boy will be forced to work and if they don't die while doing the work the tyrant will cut their hands off if they are unsuccessful or just for sport. This is a simple reality and the legacy of cruelty doesn't stop there.

    YES our unions love to use force and fail to grasp the fundamentals but that said I have seen many young woman/men facing disability and even death due to poor health and safety and forced situations.

    This range from amputation of limbs and to brain damage to blindness. You cannot deny that there must be a line that employers must not be able to cross. and If they do cross the line that there will be a decisive action.

    Entitlement itself must not be confused with basic standards. In many first world countries a basic income can provide for a individual and can afford that individual some quality of life. To work for a loaf of bread per day isn't acceptable.

    You cannot expect a person to work 12 hours a day performing a task and only pay them R20 for the day or R560 a month . That employee has no quality of life and no investment prospect for their retirement. Thus that person will become a burden to the taxpaying public regardless of the fact that she/he are employed.

    Having a stronger currency will provide for a better quality of life.

    The very simple question we as a people must ask is this. Is our demands reasonable? Is our actions Reasonable? and you will find that employers, employees and unions are not always right

    Thus practical solutions and dialogue must be part of the system and sadly it is not.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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    tec0 - you need to employ people and then you will see exactly how useless South African labour is. It is not about money, a foreigner works twice as hard and doesn't give you any nonsense. South Africans are lazy, have a culture of entitlement and no matter how much you pay them they still complain, strike and steal. It is simply the nature of the beast!

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    Email problem pietpetoors's Avatar
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    Because the anc tells the UN that everything is fine down here, there are no problems (of course) and no racism or anything funny.
    I heard Solidariteit is now taking the correct stats and information to the UN.
    Only Dead Fish go with the Flow
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    Bronze Member Butch Hannan's Avatar
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    You have summed up the situation very well. The daughter of the maid who works for us matriculated last year with a fairly decent matric. She has managed to get a job as a packer at the local Clicks. She has stated that she is going to give up this job "as the money is too little." We explained to her that she at least had a job and she should look at it as a starting point and should be able to work herself up the ladder. When they see what their leaders are earning this no doubt creates unrealistic expectations.
    This attitude of entitlement is one very small step away from anarchy!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    tec0 - you need to employ people and then you will see exactly how useless South African labour is. It is not about money, a foreigner works twice as hard and doesn't give you any nonsense. South Africans are lazy, have a culture of entitlement and no matter how much you pay them they still complain, strike and steal. It is simply the nature of the beast!
    Yep Im afraid you are totally right. The majority of South Africans are lazy and do not want to work. They do not have pride in where they live, where they work and where they play.

    Our problems regardless of their complexities can be solved easily
    Our problems are NOT easy to fix, but they are fixable. Perhaps the ANC should have a look at the Western Cape. Down there a lot more people have pride in what they do, from the street cleaner to the municipality to traffic authorities etc. The efficiency of the DA government is fantastic.

  8. #17
    Email problem pietpetoors's Avatar
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    The speech of Heman Mashaba at a Solidarity Conference is a very good read.

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/news-an...herman-mashaba
    Only Dead Fish go with the Flow
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    Email problem vieome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Hannan View Post
    You have summed up the situation very well. The daughter of the maid who works for us matriculated last year with a fairly decent matric. She has managed to get a job as a packer at the local Clicks. She has stated that she is going to give up this job "as the money is too little." We explained to her that she at least had a job and she should look at it as a starting point and should be able to work herself up the ladder. When they see what their leaders are earning this no doubt creates unrealistic expectations.
    This attitude of entitlement is one very small step away from anarchy!!!
    I really cant understand this kind of thinking, we put pressure on our kids to get matric, and after matric, we dont want them to feel they are entitled to more then a basic level packing job. Or we send them off to university, and then expect with a marketing degree they must settle into a basic sales job.

    Are we mistaking people who seek a better opportunity as people who feel they are entitled. What is wrong with someone who has finished 12 years of education feeling that they are entitled to more then a basic packing job?

    @adrianh
    "It is simply the nature of the beast" true and ironic as well, as in zimbabweans working in SA who are known to be good workers, yet when Zimbabwe was a British coloney they could not get the Zimbabweans to work, they(british) had to import labour from Malawi.

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    Well, it comes down to why she is giving up the job and what her plan is. I think we are all for her resigning so that she can start work at a better, higher paying job the next day or month. I don't think anyone is asking for her to settle for being a packer forever.

    I'd say that the issue is if she plans to simply resign without another work prospect lined up. The attitude where she will not work at all if her expected job expectations are not met, is where it becomes problematic. Surely the best way forward is to continue with the current low paying job, whilst you line up your next assignment?

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    Surely the best way forward is to continue with the current low paying job, whilst you line up your next assignment?
    Spot on

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