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Thread: 12V Downlighters

  1. #11
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    @Julies

    I had a conversation with the electrical inspector recently about solar panels, batteries and gridtied installations.

    Currently some parts of the solar installation needs to be CoC'd if and when its gridtied (thus connected to mains)
    They are in the proces of changing the regulations that the whole solar installation be CoC'd wheter or not gridtied.

    In accordance to electrical regulations we are authorized between 0v and 1000v

    A few case have arised of roofs burning due to panels, battery banks exploding and severe shocks. Unfortunetly there is alot of "fongkong" out there and seeing how I can quote someone R150 000 and the next moment someone else can quote R40 000 for the same size installation...well enough said.

    Solar is going to become like electric fencing. For a while your average guy from the street could install it and no certification was needed. Now the person installing it has to be registered or been given authority by a registered person and the you require a CoC.

    Get it done properly then you know when the time comes to get the certificate you won't struggle or have to pay lots to fix mistakes. That is the big headache with selling a property with an electric fence, cause most casses they have to be redone.


    "I used to have a lot of anger issues, now I just have a passion for justice"

  2. #12
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    Thanks for the input, but let me ask the question another way. When something considered an "installation" ? Where can I find this information. I have no doubt when you say that there is a 12V Regulation, but then what about the Alarm Technicians. Shouldn't they also be an registered as an accredited person under the DOL to do installations and sign off on a COc ? When ever I see jobs advertised for alarm technicians I have never see one requirements of the job being "Wiremans Licence"

  3. #13
    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    "electrical installation" means any machinery, in or on any premises, used for the transmission of electricity from a point of control to a point of consumption anywhere on the premises, including any article forming part of such an electrical installation irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical circuit, but excluding
    (a)
    any machinery of the supplier related to the supply of electricity on the premises;
    (b)
    any machinery which transmits electrical energy in communication, control circuits, television or radio circuits;
    4
    No. 31975 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 6 MARCH 2009
    (e)
    an electrical installation on a vehicle, vessel, train or aircraft; and
    (d)
    control circuits of 50 V or less between different parts of machinery or system components, forming a unit, that are separately installed and derived from an independent source or an isolating transformer;

    Because they work with 12V they are not required to be "Accredited" and registered with DOL. They should however be subjected to training regarding acceptable installation methods which sadly do not exist. A reputable company might give in-house training to new recruits. Their systems are plugged in appliances and therefore excluded from the COC. The onus rests on the client to express disdain at the shoddy and irresponsible installation methods. The same applies when geysers are conected by plumbers, the client has no clue that the electrics are being done by a plumber with no knowledge and that the work is being done illegally. Until the next plumber gets electrocuted, then it is the electrician who issued the COC prior to the geyser replacement who is to blame.

  4. #14
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    there are quite a few institutions that offer installation rules,can you kindly assist of a credible one with a gud track record. I need to enroll for this course.

  5. #15
    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    I do believe that the installation rules courses being offered are not for 12Volt but rather basic tubing and RDP house type wiring.

  6. #16
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    Thanks for the reply Sparks, But this then leads to the next question... If the alarm system is a "Plug in" Appliance and does not need a CoC, as you have stated in you post, Then why can't I just install a 12V "Plug in" row of 12V down lights ? (assuming all the equipment is SABS approved) or just connect the down lights straight to a small single battery ( like an alarm system battery) with the wires glued on the wall like telephone wires or any other 12V lights.. I honestly cannot see the diffrence between what the Alarm tech does when installing 12V network and me just installing a 12V network.. Ps I am just trying to understand and not being difficult

  7. #17
    Diamond Member Mike C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    Sigh

    Another house about to burn to the ground.

    You may go now.
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    No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted. - Aesop "The Lion and the Mouse"

  8. #18
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    No need for a COC there
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
    Solar pumping, Solar Geyser & Solar Security lighting solutions - www.microsolve.co.za

  9. #19
    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    A valid question Julies. You must however keep in mind that there are differences between an "appliance", a "fixed appliance" and "installation". Granted, what is "plugged" in is not covered by the COC. The problem with what you are suggesting however has specific limitations. Are you going to buy a SANS approved kit to plug in or are you going to "manufacture" your "appliance"? Will you be obtaining SANS approval for your "plugged in" "appliance". If you wish to retain your insurance cover these criteria will need to be met. Using a high amperage transformer to supply a string of 12Volt downlights can be very hazardous. How many batteries are you going to need to supply the amperage for all your downlights? What gauge cable are you going to use over what length for what amperage? There are a lot of factors which need to be considered before the regulations can be utilised to their full effect.
    Maybe that is what you need to think about. The regs are not there to nail anyone. They are there because they ensure that you do not cause a hazardous situation which will lead to damage to the extent of costing a life. They are there for your benefit, not to nail your ass to the wall. Some people have brought about their own deaths by making a simple "appliance" such a a bedside lamp just because they used ripcord for a metal lampshade with a brass lamp holder. The regs warn you that if it is metal it must be earthed! See them as your "protector".

  10. #20
    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    See how "friendly" the Friendly City is?

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