Generator connection

**DieterT** · 24-Mar-15, 06:44 AM

Thnx Sparks. Yes and that is the attitude all sparkies should carry around. Don't sign the certificate if it does not comply. But unfortunetly there are a lot of desperate sparkies out there who would turn the blind eye for some extra cash in his pocket.

"I used to have a lot of anger issues, now I just have a passion for justice"

**SilverNodashi** · 20-Apr-15, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by DieterT

Thnx Sparks. Yes and that is the attitude all sparkies should carry around. Don't sign the certificate if it does not comply. But unfortunetly there are a lot of desperate sparkies out there who would turn the blind eye for some extra cash in his pocket.

"I used to have a lot of anger issues, now I just have a passion for justice"

And quite often they're more expensive as well!

**Matt_k** · 11-May-15, 11:44 AM

Hi Guys,

Most of you seem rather knowledgeable, so I'd like to garner your opinion regarding grounding of a portable generator.

I recently purchased a Kipor IG2600 (2.6Kva) Digital Inverter gennie as I want to power things like our entertainment system, or my desktop PC etc. Now I have tested it and it all works swimmingly well. The Digetal Inverter type generators cost quite a bit more than your builders 'special' generators, and have AVR, Overload etc. I would like to believe that they quality of the components is of a good quality since I paid a bit of a premium. Other than the quality aspect, main reason that I bought it is because I stay in a complex and noise is an issue so wanted the quietest (within budget) generator available as so not to disturb my neighbours.

Now my main question I have for you brainiac's is what options do I have regarding grounding of my generator? I have read about ground spikes etc, but info is a bit slim online in SA, and parts for that matter as well. Also since I have a new house in a complex, building rubble is abundant in my garden, so driving a 2.4m copper rod into the ground might prove somewhat challenging...

Is it possible to ground it to the water pipes perhaps? I know I have a garden tap outside which appears to have a metal pipe running up the wall out of the ground, so was considering this (if the pipe is copper). If possible, I would prefer to try and do the installation myself within reason, as I have gotten some quotes from some electricians in my area for a Manual Transfer switch installed, and the amounts where laughable... One wanted to charge me R7995 for just a switch mounted with a plug right at my DB board in the garage which I'm pretty sure is daylight robbery.

I know it won't power the house and as mentioned before it doesn't need to, just would be easier to isolate the circuits I want (LED lights and lounge plugs) for the DB switch. But for now I'd settle just to sort out the Grounding so I know it is safer. I am not an electrician, i'm just a normal guy that likes to do his own DIY.

Just a FYI with the generators, in my manual it was quite handy at showing the power loss for the generators at altitude. It stated for every 305 meters above sea level, your gen will lose 3% ( if I remember correctly, will check tonight). Plus then you lose some more for temperature as well, so make sure when buying a Gen, that you have about 20 - 30% in reserve of what you actually need on the highveld because of those losses to be safe.

Thanks again,

**AndyD** · 11-May-15, 12:13 PM

I'd suggest you refer back to the suppliers because I suspect this generator is not suitable for connection to a DB. Page 13 of the manual 'Do not connect the generator to a household circuit. This could cause the damage to the generator or to electrical appliances in the house.'

**Matt_k** · 11-May-15, 12:38 PM

The manual does mention that it can be connected to the house via a Manual Transfer Switch, but that aside, do you have any thoughts about the grounding of said generator? out of interest, with new complexes these days, what seems to be the norm when it comes to grounding? (in general from your experience)

**AndyD** · 11-May-15, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Matt_k

The manual does mention that it can be connected to the house via a Manual Transfer Switch, but that aside, do you have any thoughts about the grounding of said generator? out of interest, with new complexes these days, what seems to be the norm when it comes to grounding? (in general from your experience)

The problem is that with your Eskom supply the neutral and the earth are connected at source. With the AVR output from the generator there is no neutral as such, both output wires are effectively lives and neither are connected in any way the the 'ground' terminal on the generator body or frame.

What this means is that if you connect it to your DB via a transfer switch the neutrals of the circuits in your house effectively become live. Just some of the problems this raises are that overload protection devices (circuit breakers) in you DB only protect the live of the circuits, with the generator supplying the installation it's possible to get overload faults on the neutral which won't trip. Also the sockets in your house will only have a switch that disconnects the live of the supply circuit, again this means that the 'neutral' which is now actually another 'live' is not disconnected. Same with applianxces, most on/off switches only control the live not the neutral.

TS Bulletin 2013-006.pdf

Even the service agents seem to get confused about generator output configurations.

The list of problems goes on but the bottom line remains the generator isn't safe to use as a permanently installed back-up supply. If you do connect it to your DB and someone gets injured or killed you'll be the responsible person. Use it as it was intended with extension leads and with the ground terminal on the frame of the generator connected to an earth rod.

**Matt_k** · 12-May-15, 07:42 AM

Thanks AndyD, yeah I will just use the extension cord then. I have a 25A outdoor cable so it is properly rated for anything that the generator can throw at it.

Regarding the grounding, where can I find a ground rod, or is it possible to ground it to the water pipe or something? As mentioned, since my garden has quite a bit of building rubble in the soil the ground rod of 2.4m might be a slight problem.

Thanks,

**AndyD** · 12-May-15, 10:53 AM

You can buy earth rods at any electrical wholesaler but if you use these you'll need to test how effective that earth is after you've knocked them in which is a bit tricky without the proper test equipment. The water pipe bonding isn't ideal, again you'd need to test it first.

I'd suggest connecting to the main earth terminal of the house if it's accessible. If the house was recently built there might be an earth terminal above the ceiling or somewhere around the DB which is specially provided for other services.

**Paul Sabatier** · 06-Jul-15, 09:58 AM

There is a previous topic http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/s...rth-connection

**JacquesPN** · 30-Apr-18, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Justloadit

Hi Andy,

I agree with you on your statement as far as a large generator is concerned however, what we are doing here in Jhb, is installing a 5.5KVA genny, with a manual change over switch, connected to the DB board, BUT, we isolate a number of circuits only which are connected to the generator. Usually lights, fridge circuit and entertainment circuit.

Basically during a black out, the user starts the genny via a key switch on the genny, as most 5.5Kva have an electric start, once running, they change the switch manually to genny, have power during the black out, and when the power returns, they simply change over back to mains, switch the genny off and wait for the next one.

This makes it safe for any one to use, and due to the simplicity can even be done by the home manager if required during the day.

What you are doing is actually in almost every case illegal and very dangerous.
Most generators under 12Kva are PNP devices meaning that if you measure between the L-E you will get 115VAC, N-E 115VAC and L-N 230VAC.

SANS is very clear that these devices may not be connected to the DB.

SANS calls for the earth and neutral to be bonded, and clearly you can not do this on a PNP device as you would make the earth live.
All Honda, Briggs, Yamaha and their cheap Chinese duplicates are PNP devices and as such may NOT be connected to your DB. The only legal way to use them is via a lead which the end device is connected to. There one exception is a HONDA EU imported from Europe which is a true NPN generator, for some unknown reason Honda SA does not bring this into SA.