Most of the earth wires are being stolen ... I can see new regulations coming soon ... where the customer (poor suckers) will be left with the responsibilty once again ... this time to provide adequate earthing arrangements ... like earth spikes and mats.Originally Posted by FRENCHIE
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
This has been happening since SETA began. I have already packed it in. It gets worse by the day, good luck holding out another two tears.
What would be really helpfull ... if this thread which is pinned ... was used to keep everyone up to date with the latest SANS editions ... with a brief over view of the latest amendments.
So that people can discuss them add their thoughts etc.
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
I believe most of the "old school sparkie" have given up on this industry ... as much as they keep throwing new rules at us without actually following up and policing ... until they employ suitably qualified people to check ... change the fact that it is the property owners responsibilty to make sure the electrical installation is up to standard ( what a joke) and impliment a credit system for sparkies ... this hole is just gonna sink deeper and deeper.
I have less the an 5 months to go to reach my 30 year goal ... then I plan to make a few changes ... one of the changes is going to be the amount of physical work I personally do ... my plan is to start employing the services of small electrical companies and working as a site supervisor type operation ... the majority of my work will be sub contracted ... my job will be to help improve the quality by going to site and checking on progress ...dealing with the customers and just general surpervision ... is it gonna work ... who knows I can only try.
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
There is only one option to this hole as you very well said, where by anyone ( SO CALLED SPARKIES ) does anything they like and then they have the oddasity to call it an electrical installation, and the client searching for the cheapest contractor, that's a joke,
As I mentioned before, bring the flipping REAL ROAMING ELECTRICAL INSPECTORS BACK, and fine the contractors or even remove their permits to operate as electrical contractors when there work is below standard.
What happened to the PRIDE in what we are supposed to be good at.
And the ME's that go around bragging, that qualifications should only be issued as a gift by the proper authorities, only once they have had a clean record of excellent electrical installations, because what I have observed from some the ME's is a joke.
Surely the great electrical brains behind this FORUM can tighten screws of the heads of government departments to make this happen, if not this dilemma will be the end of this industry.
I just hope that I am not the only one out there thinking this way.
FRENCHIE
The problem is not the electrical industry ... life in general in SA has become as they call it in the education department "lower grade" ... where the trucks determine the width of the road ... the grass and trees have grown into the lanes of the freeway and the trucks cut them back s they pass ... thats just 1 example ... if you open your eyes and look around you notice Sa has become a filthy shyte hole ... another example ... if you driving out of Durban on old fort Rd just after the macs ... look down onto the train line ... in a couple of years that entire area will just be a waste heap.
As the older generation of sparkie pass on ... so the quality of workamanship will degrade ... and the wealth of information will pass away with them ... we are partly to blame for not taking on youngsters and teaching them so that they can learn and so pass it on.
I recall there were many chirps about the old railways ... but as I sit here today ... we had the best oportunity and training ... the standard were top notch ... points were alocated for neatness etc.
almost 40 years of hands on experience in the electricial industry ... from mass housing projects to commercial building installations ... shopping centres ... movie houses ... banks ... suger mills ... water treament and waste water design build and install ... factory installations and maintenance ... street lighting ... stadium lighting ...to power quality ... thermography ... CCTV and alarm installations ... gate installations and repairs ... the advantage I will have when employing sub conctractors ... if they f%^& up ... I can go in and fix the mess quickly I am actually looking forward to the new venture which will start in March 2021.
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
Hi Sir another clarification section 5 its engineer responsibilities to from commissioning and construction and procurement of material. The engineer must have Ecsa (Engineering council of South africa) registration Number as Professional Engineer, or Professional technologist. All the remain Part belong to the register person to sing and take responsibilities.
Most of the case Engineer they dont sign thats why in the updated Coc with Edition 3 of 2020, Section 5 has been modify .
GUYS.
I agree with all of the above.
BUT if there are NO electrical inspectors.
1. The COC's are not having the affect that was meant to have by controlling the RIFFAFF'S in our industry, without any professional electrical inspections you might as well scrap the COC forms.
2. Electrical engineers all they want to see is the final aesthetics of the contract, they don't inspect the installation, we have been involved in many extensions of essential buildings, and having to tie into the existing side of the building, one of them we had price therefore we had to do an investigation, we horrified by the existing installation was done, where there was exposed joints and somehow the multitude of rows of P8000 trunking suspended from the soffit and the trunking had shrunk over years from the initial installation ( bullsh1t), and the PVC house wires had somehow bloated (SH1T again), the reason why I can put my head on the chopping block on the above, is that it was NOT a problem for the contractor he took two long cable ties slipped together and kindly strapped every 1 meter or so the METAL P8000 TRUNKING COVER.
Totally flabbergasted because this building was only about 20 to 30 years old, so we took all sorts of pictures, showed the client then to their head office and nothing came of it.
Showed the pics to an electrical engineer and his response was, I quote ( we design and calculate the installation, the electrical contractors signs the COC and responsibility for the installation ) end of quote.
We sent these pics to the ECA for further justification ( that was lost in vacuum of the universe).
IN OTHER WORDS NOTHING CAME OF IT, and WE MUST HAVE BEEN TO MUCH OF A HEADACHE because we never got the contract and I am sure that the electrical installation of that building is the same.
AGAIN.
Without any professional inspections it will be same as above.
3. The authorities should spend less time on redesigning the COC forms and look what is happening in the real world, it is absolute nonsense.
A. Having to get the existing COC from the owner/tenant for installing a plug or light point, or you will be responsible for the entire installation.
B. You complete a contract you have to issue three copies of the COC's included in electrical manuals on in three separate files.
The original file to client
One to the architect
One to the electrical engineer
One to the builder
The very organization that are responsible of the electrical contractors to make sure that the well being of the HUMAN RIGHTS & SAFETY is the up most important, THEY DON'T GET ONE COPY, they don't even know that some electrics was done ( that's a joke).
4. The only thing that the authorities are worried about.
A. You are working on a ladder and you have to have a fully registered health & safety file for this chap, now you can't using him because you land up in vicious cycle.(what a waste money of resources)
B. Ear plugs when you using a drilling machine 😳.
C. You can't wear shorts.
D. You know the saying ( that the dogs tail is wagging the dog ).
A safety officer on site which has studied for his skills let's say 1 month can threaten you, that they can kick you OFF site because of a stupid reason like you working on a ladder and your head is tilted up connecting a light fitting and you're not wearing your helmet because it keeps falling off your head.
GUYS MY BAGS ARE FULL OF ANGER.
HELL how did all the old SPARKIES ever managed to get old we did NOT have ALL that BULLSH1T in our days, what it does is create employment, yes great now it cost so much more to build one building, rather than build more buildings for less they want more TOGS for shorter periods.
I JUST DON'T SEE THE LOGIC, ON ANY OF THE ABOVE.
FRENCHIE
Lets no go into safety officers ... I am gonna stop right here.
I agree with new regulations ... as technology evolves so the rules and regs should ... however ... without policing you are wasting your time.
I was involved in a project a couple years ago ( a hospital) because the contractor has such a bad name around town ... there was a clause in the contract that independant inspectors had to test once the electrical installation was "complete" ... I still havent put a green sticker on any part of the installation ... the hospital is open ... payment also became a problem ...because I was told it was per COC that I would get paid ... I couldnt issue any COC's still to this day ... the installation was not ready at the time of the test ... lots of talk about stuff being almost ready and it would be done ... seeing is believing.
When you are on site testing and the "sparkies" cant figue out how 2 way switching works ... so there are wires hanging out the roof all over the place ... yet you are required to sign off the incomplete installation ... maybe that is how it is suppose to work ... I walked off site and someone else went in behind me and issued the COC's.
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
@BlueArk A competent person is an accredited electrician who is himself registered with DOL as a contractor or under the "umbrella" registration at DOL of a company where the owner or a full time employee is registered with DOL. A trade Test does not make an electrician "competent" in terms of the law. Accreditation is a step in the right direction but, registration with DOL is the final requirement and cannot happen without accreditation. Well, used to in any case, the way things are now, accreditation, even qualification is a joke. For the most part I have no respect for engineers. They are mostly pen pushers who have the cat by the tail regarding methodology and practicality. There are very few exceptions. The calculations a school kid can do if you give him the formula. It would be a blessing in disguise that the engineer does not sign the COC if the COC was really regulated and policed. Ask any pharmacist how many times he has had to call up a doctor to query a script because it did not make sense or the medication clashed with other medication the patient was using or even because the dosage prescribed would kill the person. The guy in the trenches is the one who sees what materials are used and what method of installation and how that method is actually applied.
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