Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 15232425
Results 241 to 249 of 249

Thread: The Electrical Certificate of Compliance explained

  1. #241
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Jhb
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Ill take a stab as a layman

    Quote Originally Posted by Derlyn View Post
    Artvark

    Many guys have overlooked your question regarding lights not working.if the lights are not working due to a blown bulb - not a problem , if the light is not working because the bare copper conductors are hanging out the chocolate block - problem

    My opinion is that most electricians are unsure .... and therefore hesitant to answer your question, myself included.

    I have checked the regs and my contribution is as follows.

    1. Lights are not included in the COC. ( Note 3 on the test report confirms this ) This note only refers to the actual light - the circuit to the light still needs to be checked for compliance
    2. The circuits to fixed appliances are covered but not the appliance itself. As per note 3 you mentioned
    3. From the regulations it states that a luminaire (light) becomes a fixed appliance when it is combined with a fan.In this case its to make sure it can be isolated when performing mainance work on it - same as a geyeser and stove - point of isolation so that the plumber or handyman can easily and safely isolate the power
    4. The regulations for a fixed appliance are thus only applicable for a light when it is combined with a fan.I would still make sure that if the light fitting is made from a conductive material and within arms reach that is earted
    5. The problem arises with the definition of a fixed appliance. A light that is mounted to the wall is a fixed appliance because one needs to use a tool to remove it. Is it a fixed appliance ?
    I don't know. Its stays behind when you move out - but you don't need a point of isolation at the appliance as with "other" fixed appliances

    From the above one can see that there is a grey area as far as lights are concerned. That is why electricians differ on this issue.

    When I do an inspection on a domestic installation and come across lights that have been plugged into socket outlets, I always quote to rewire them onto the lighting circuit so as to prevent any comebacks in future. That said, I'm still not sure whether a light plugged into a socket outlet is legal or not. Its commonly used in factories especially with High bay lighs to make replacement of the entire fitting easy

    Maybe some of the other toppies can comment.

    Peace out ... Derek
    I have always seen its as, when you move out, does is stay behind ?
    "Yes - Then its a

  2. #242
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    planet earth
    Posts
    2,420
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 203 Times in 177 Posts
    I have been watching a few electrician youtube channels ... with regards to the COC.

    Why do we not have a similar setup to them ... for example:

    CAT 1 - Dangerous requires action immediately.
    CAT 2 - Not code compliant and reuires attention.
    Cat 3 - Compliant but requires attention.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  3. #243
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    planet earth
    Posts
    2,420
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 203 Times in 177 Posts
    An attacement from the sparks mag.


    The most important piece of the blah blah blah ... the poor sucker at the end of the day who is once again responsible.


    If your electrician installs products that are not approved by the relevant regulator, the certificate of compliance (COC) they issue is invalid. Without a valid COC, the insurance on the property could be declared invalid and, should an injury or incident occur, the property owner could be held liable.


    The Department of Labour covers the use of products in electrical installations and prescribes the wiring code. It also sets out the regulations applicable to domestic, commercial and industrial installations. The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA) makes and maintains regulations relating to electric equipment in accordance with the Electronic Communications Act. This includes Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) standards for most electrical and electronic equipment and products.

    Products that do not meet the standards could interfere with specific broadcasting and essential signalling systems, such as in air traffic control, security communication systems and pacemakers in healthcare applications.

    The Consumer Protection Act (CPA) deals with consumer products and states, under Section 55 (d) regarding consumers’ rights to safe, good-quality goods: “… every consumer has the right to receive goods that ... comply with any applicable standards set under the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No. 29 of 1993), or any other public regulation”.

    The National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications (NRCS) develops and implements national safety specifications for products that are manufactured in and, or imported into South Africa. Many of the compulsory specifications include ICASA’s EMC standards They will issue either an LOA (Letter of Authority), RCC (Regulatory Compliance Certificate) or, in some cases, a SP (Sales Permit) for an electrical product A list of products regulated by the NRCS can be found at www.nrcs. org.za. SAFEHouse published a useful consolidated list of electrical products that is regulated by the NRCS: www.safehousesa.co.za

    SABS and CE marks

    SABS certification, and use of the long-standing and ubiquitous SABS mark become voluntary in 2008, when the NRCS become the national regulator. The SABS mark does not indicate compliance with compulsory regulatory standards in South Africa.

    The Conformité Européenne or CE mark is generally a ‘self-certification’ mark which was introduced in the European Economic Area (EEA) to indicate that products conform with relevant EU directives regarding health and safety or environmental protection. The CE marking is regulated by a process of market surveillance and can also be found on products sold outside the EEA that have been manufactured to EEA standards. It should be noted that, as it is a self-certification scheme, even a genuine CE-marked product does not mean the product has been tested by an independent entity, something which is not necessary under this scheme.

    Misuse of the CE mark is well known in the EU and elsewhere, notably by unscrupulous manufacturers who, by adding the CE mark to electrical products without justification, deliberately intend to dupe unsuspecting users.

    The SABS or CE mark cannot replace an LOA, RCC or SP issued by the National Regulator.

    What are the implications if you bypass the NRCS as a manufacturer/importer?

    According to the National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications Act, manufacturers/importers of any of the products listed on its website must ensure their products meet the relevant SANS standards. In addition, they must send test reports and pay a prescribed fee to the National Regulator in order to obtain an LOA or RCC.

    Failure to do so can result in recall of the product, the consignment returned to its country of origin; or the consignment or batch of the article concerned be confiscated or destroyed.

    What are the implications if you sell products that do not have LOA/RCC/SP?

    As above, a person may not sell a product that does not comply with the compulsory specifications for that product. Doing so can result in the recall of the product, the consignment returned to its country of origin; or the consignment or batch of the article concerned be confiscated, destroyed.

    What are the implications if you install products that do not have LOAs/RCCs/SPs?

    Electrical work is complex and can be dangerous. As an electrical contractor, you want to be assured that you are working with safe products that meet South Africa’s safety, performance and environmental standards. By installing products that don’t have the necessary approvals your jobs can become time consuming with call backs from clients and, in the worst case, a catastrophe to either you, your team or the property owner.

    In order to issue a Certificate of Compliance (COC) all electrical equipment in the installation must be approved by the relevant regulator. If you install products that are not approved, your COC is invalid.

    What are the implications if your electrical contractor installs products that do not have a LOA/RCC/SP at your property?

    If your electrician installs products that are not approved by the relevant regulator, the certificate of compliance (COC) they issue is invalid. Without a valid COC, the insurance on the property could be declared invalid and, should an injury or incident occur, the property owner could be held liable.
    In summary:

    The NRCS develops, maintains and administers compulsory specifications and technical regulations for electrical products.
    Safety, performance and environmental regulations apply to products manufactured in and imported into South Africa.
    The list of regulated products can be found on: www.nrcs.org.za. Alternatively contact SAFEHouse for a consolidated list.
    The SABS or CE mark cannot replace an LOA, RCC or SP issued by the National Regulator.
    Manufacturers/importers who bypass the NRCS face the recall and confiscation of their products.
    Outlets that sell products that do not have LOA/RCC/SP face the recall and confiscation of their products.
    Electrical contractors who install products that do not have LOAs/ RCCs/SPs are putting themselves at risk and cannot issue valid COCs.
    COCs for properties where products that do not have relevant LOAs/ RCCs/SPs are invalid. The insurance on the property could be declared invalid. Electrical work is complex and can be dangerous – do the right thing.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  4. #244
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Germiston
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Very informative and vital info when you are purchasing a property.

  5. #245
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    planet earth
    Posts
    2,420
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 203 Times in 177 Posts
    The most common response I get when I point out illegal components while carrying out an inspection report ... "but it has worked for 20 years, why now suddenly do I have to repair it , I am going to find someone else who won’t try rip me off" ... in some cases they are correct ...I can see by the wiring... type of plugs ... fuse box etc. ... unfortunately like your car it doesn’t last forever ... it may start and run ... that does make it road worthy ... then you get the old properties which have had "teams dropped off" to install a plug or replace all the old plugs and switches ... due to their inexperience ... I come across everything illegal ... no earth leakage because the installation is that old ... to connections in TEE pieces or connections next to the TEE piece ... open wiring ... Twine on the top of the rafters in the walkway ... to my favourite ... the 4x4 PVC extension box with a double socket outlet ... fitted over an old 5 amp socket outlet (4x2 flush box) using 2 wires (no earth) because the steel pipe is the earth and because the other plugs only has 2 wires and earth is not required ... wrong ... then when you call the electrical company owner who dropped off his team and request the COC for the work carried out by his team ... his response "I don’t need to issue a COC because we just replaced the sockets ... this is what we are dealing with in the industry ...thanks to a useless DOL who seem to be just as incompetent as the electrical contractors dropping off teams.

    Thank goodness the electrical contractor is no longer held responsible for the electrical installation ... at the end of the day only the home owner/user has control over who works on the property ... if you think something is not right just get a second opinion.

    Then people say I am too expensive ... they are actually right ... there is no longer a place for skilled ... experienced tradesmen ... in a couple of years once we all pass on ...there won’t be these posts complaining about the shocking workmanship and illegal components ... dodgy installations were the owner saved a few bucks by using the "builders electrician" or electrician who was holding a sign up at builders or the friend who works in a factory who rewired the house Ove the weekend ... or the handy man who knows electrical.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

  6. Thanks given for this post:

    nasri (12-Aug-20)

  7. #246
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East london
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    I am so glad that I was born in 1958.

    I am also glad that I had the pleasure of working during a period where a profit of 20% was deemed more than sufficient. More and you were labelled a thief.

    I am also glad that I received maybe the best training that one could receive. Good old SAR&H. Ian, we had the best my brother. Maybe the Atlas Aircraft Co guys can share that title.

    I am also glad that I lived through the period where having pride in one's work actually mean't a lot more than " how much money can I make ? "

    I am also glad that I lived through the period that we did not study to just pass the exam, but to gain as much knowledge on the subject at hand, as possible.

    I am glad I lived when the rand was stronger than the dollar.

    I am glad I lived when regulations were easy and simple to understand. Legal versus illegal, right verses wrong, were like day verses night. ( no grey areas )


    Come 2020.

    If you don't show a profit of at least 200%, close shop. You won't make it.
    If you have a multimeter, a screwdriver and a pliers, you are an electrician.
    Don't worry about cosmetics, just make as much money as you can.
    As long as I get 31%, Yay! I passed.

    Regulations have become so complicated that trying to establish whether a 60W light fitting, fixed to a wall in a bedroom, ( NOT A HIGH BAY LIGHT IN A FACTORY ) wired with 3 core 2,5mm cabtyre flex, properly earthed and neatly clipped to the skirting board and plugged into a socket outlet is legal or not, is simply impossible.

    Had to get that off my chest. ( living on borrowed time )

    Peace out ... Derek ( Ex ZS2J )

  8. #247
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,001
    Thanks
    3,174
    Thanked 2,577 Times in 2,174 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Derlyn View Post
    Regulations have become so complicated that trying to establish whether a 60W light fitting, fixed to a wall in a bedroom, ( NOT A HIGH BAY LIGHT IN A FACTORY ) wired with 3 core 2,5mm cabtyre flex, properly earthed and neatly clipped to the skirting board and plugged into a socket outlet is legal or not, is simply impossible.
    The question to answer is what part of SANS 10124-1 does it contravene?

    I've been watching the discussion with some interest. Yes, there are quite a few different mentions of luminaires fed off a socket outlet in the Code with requirements in particular circumstances. However, I can find no general exclusion that forces luminaires to be supplied off socket outlets only as per Sections 6.14.1.4 to 6.14.1.6.

    Luminaires are also recognised under fixed appliances - as example in the Fixed Appliance section -

    6.16.1.5 A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended. The reason for
    this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the overcurrent protective device. (But see also 6.14.1.4 for luminaires.)

    They are fixed appliances, but enjoy particular exemptions that are standard requirements of other types of fixed appliances (particularly the isolating device requirement). There are also circumstances where a luminaire may be supplied by a socket outlet without the socket outlet being on earth leakage. However, this does not mean that there may not be an isolating device in the supply to a luminaire, and that luminaires may not be supplied by a circuit that has earth leakage protection.

    I think at the end of the day when "may" is confused with "must" (or "shall") - this is where the interpretative confusion starts...

  9. #248
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Twist-on wire connector

    What's the deal with those Twist-on wire connectors ? (Plastic / ceramic. Looks like a bostic glue screw top)

    I seem to be getting conflicting opinions on them.

    One opinion is that they're only of a temporary fix/ use and are illegal to use permanently in a compliant system.

    The other is, if they are hidden and not easily accessible than they can be compliant with regards to a ECOC.

    Anyone ?

  10. #249
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    planet earth
    Posts
    2,420
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 203 Times in 177 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Artvark View Post
    What's the deal with those Twist-on wire connectors ? (Plastic / ceramic. Looks like a bostic glue screw top)

    I seem to be getting conflicting opinions on them.

    One opinion is that they're only of a temporary fix/ use and are illegal to use permanently in a compliant system.

    The other is, if they are hidden and not easily accessible than they can be compliant with regards to a ECOC.

    Anyone ?
    I also heard this ... but in reality ...there are more serious issues in this industry than to be fussing with silly thing like skrewits.

    They cant control illegal COC's ...how they gonna control the use of skrewits ... 3 phase 4 pin ornage plugs is another joke ... they are also suppose to be illegalto istall in new installtions ... they sell them with a notice

    At R600 a COC ...who has time to open junction boxes to check for skrewits? ... i only have time to plug in my loop impedance tester have a quick look around and i am out of the there ... the rest of the hour is spent filling out the COC (actually I dont my daughter fills them at much cheaper rate then mine) ... yip its a joke.
    Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.

Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 15232425

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] Electrical Certificate of Compliance Number?
    By Herman in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 14-Mar-14, 12:23 PM
  2. Electrical compliance certificate
    By ericlowry in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 23-Jul-13, 08:08 AM
  3. The new electrical certificate of compliance
    By Dave A in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 27-Sep-12, 11:34 AM
  4. What are the Electrical Compliance Certificate Requirements
    By MikeS in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 18-Jun-12, 10:24 PM
  5. electrical certificate of compliance
    By murdock in forum General Business Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-Jul-10, 09:13 PM

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •