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    Bronze Member iLLuDeano's Avatar
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    Big pharma's 'satanic' plot is genocide

    http://mg.co.za/article/2014-01-16-m...ot-is-genocide

    So let's get this subject rolling. i know very little about what is happening in the Pharma business. Although this article did raise my eyebrows and I would certainly like some insight as to why only now in South Africa of all countries is someone making a statement like this. It impacts more that just South Africans. To me this is a whistleblower's attempt to wake people up.

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    I think that the government is being absurd as usual. So, if I develop a wonderful new pair of underpants that stops anybody from getting Aids then I must give up my IP so that the government can give it to the masses...I think not. The government seems to think that everybody must just hand things over because they want it aka Zim.

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    I think the government is spot on.

    In a framework for policy, the department notes and recommends, among other things, that:

    * Provision should be made for the compulsory licensing of crucial drugs at the lower of two typical rates of payment. This would allow the state to assign the right to make a drug to a third party with only limited compensation to the owner;
    * Provision should be made for the parallel importation of drugs. This denies drug companies the opportunity to charge more for a drug in South African than elsewhere in the world because it could be imported from the lower-price territory, whether the patent owner approved or not;
    * Patents for drugs should be conditional on an examination to ensure that the drug is new or innovative, and should not be automatically granted;
    * Generally, "patent flexibility" for medicine should be made a matter of law;
    * The holders of intellectual property rights, such as drug companies, should be encouraged to protect their own rights rather than depending on state institutions, such as the police or customs, to do so; and
    * South Africa should seek to influence the region, and the world, to move towards its vision of intellectual property protection.

    The draft does not yet have any status as policy, and was open for public comment. To what extent those comments, including submissions from pharmaceutical companies, may sway the department is not yet known. The department was this week still processing responses.

    But the local subsidiaries of drug companies are taking no chances on that score.

    "Without a vigorous campaign, opponents of strong IP will prevail," wrote the American lobbyists hired to launch a countercampaign, "not just in South Africa, but eventually in much of the rest of the developing world."
    I'm not surprised the drug cartels are up in arms about the governments proposed legislation. They've been abusing the copyrighting and IP system for decades by making minor alterations to drug formulations in order to artificially prevent expiry of copyrights, why should they stop now? Also there's nothing they'd hate worse than not having taxpayer funded resources at their beck and call such as the police and customs to protect their price rigging business model and artifically inflated prices determined on geographical basis.
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    Platinum Member pmbguy's Avatar
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    Slightly off post, but I wish to include my personal experience and sentiment regarding the medical industry.

    I studied psychology for many years with the intent of becoming a psychologist, after which one would naturally (if you clever), study pharmacology to prescribe scheduled drugs. I got my bachelors Cum Laude and I have 2 modules to complete for honours. I stopped to do business full time, but more importantly I stopped because of personal misgivings of the industry generally and doing it day to day personally.

    We are fools to time.... in the same way as mercury and tobacco were advocated as beneficial in the past. My concern and ultimate rejection of mind altering drugs is exactly that: It alters one mind, all of it. Sure it may elevate or remove negative behaviour along the way, but at the same time it changes everything else. It should only be used in extreme cases. It should not be a normal legitimate solution and used as ubiquitously as it is.

    Once we know more about the brain my position may change.
    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. – Charles Darwin

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    Platinum Member pmbguy's Avatar
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    Psychoactive drugs is what I was referring to specifically in my post above.
    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. – Charles Darwin

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    Platinum Member pmbguy's Avatar
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    Government might be spot on, but who will do the negotiation...? I am afraid that other states and their pharma-corps view us as an easy target. For an example of how we are perceived we only have to look back at Mantu Shabalala Msimang and her veg fiasco. Mvetu.... sweet patato shaya e aids, vuti e garlic. For fuck sakes.

    In 1994 we gained freedom....which was a justifiable result in the book. If we had to ask Wouter Basson though... he might mention that the US (our former partner until the mid 80’s) recognises our weakness and calls us “friend” for obvious economic reasons. It’s a shame they allowed China to be our master though. In their minds they could push any new drug and make it work through “legitimate” means (In SA and everywhere else). Big pharma in the US has thousands of lobbyists working away, for bad and for worse. Thoughts of the product’s efficacy are superseded by potential price, a price they wish to kill us with (No pun intended)

    But don t get too conspiralogical too fast. Apart from price the tec is mostly legit. It’s their capitalism against ours. Just wish we had more Aaron Motsoaledi’s to negotiate better terms.
    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. – Charles Darwin

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    There are billions of people on the face or the earth each with some type of medical need. So how can pharmaceutical companies not profit? Example my medication cost me R600 per month for 30 pills. That is 1 pill for each day...

    Without these pills I die a painful agenizing death I will slowly suffocate while going into a blind panic and eventually lose consciousness while gasping for air then death.

    There is no generic alternative and skipping on my pills is a massive dangerous gamble. Now according to the internet there is over half a million people suffering from the same dangerous illness so let’s consider that they make “give or take” over three billion six hundred million per year “how much of that is profit I don’t know” I feel that they can make the medication cheaper wouldn’t you agree?

    But I mean nothing to them... If I die a slow painful scary death they don’t care because I am but one person out of a half a million other paying customers. Why would they care?
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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    I think its total rubbish. Pharmaceutical companies develop products to make money, for no other reason. They are not charities, they are not the salvation army, they spend huge amounts of money and time to develop their products, why should they not profit. Tec, if you lived 100 years ago you would have died from your terrible ailment, you are kept alive artificially because they developed the drugs, pay or die, that's the way of the world.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    I think its total rubbish. Pharmaceutical companies develop products to make money, for no other reason. They are not charities, they are not the salvation army, they spend huge amounts of money and time to develop their products, why should they not profit. Tec, if you lived 100 years ago you would have died from your terrible ailment, you are kept alive artificially because they developed the drugs, pay or die, that's the way of the world.
    I don't think I will be viewing another post of you again...
    Last edited by AndyD; 18-Jan-14 at 12:18 AM.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    It's capitalism, people start business to make money. Pharmaceuticals cost big bucks to research and develop. Not every development gets to market.
    Start limiting profit and companies will cut the costs by doing less testing, not a good situation. Or, if a line is not producing profit, I will can it, or limit it, using resources for higher profit lines.
    I don't have a problem with the inventor of a product having a time-limited market advantage which allows him to recoup the R&D costs and set himself up in a position to monetize his product. Without this advantage r&d wouldn't be financially viable and invention would be stifled, this is what the copyright, patent and IP system should be doing.

    The problem is what the copyright and IP laws have evolved into. The length of time has become way too long and the scope of protection has become way too broad which is now in itself stifling further innovation. It's giving companies who own the 'rights' to products so much protection they can hold the world to ransom for decades for their own excessive financial gain and allowng them to dictate where the product can and can't be used or applied and usually to the detriment of society as a whole. It also allows the perpetuation of outdated business models and monopolies due to the unfair advantage afforded to them.

    This is all a result of continuous lobbying and mission creep. Many of these companies will spend far more on lobbying to extend their copyrights and patents on their existing products than they do on R&D of new products because gradually hacking away and getting the laws bent and eventually rewritten in their favour is far more profitable than innovating and brnging new products to market.


    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    The IP needs tightening up, the parts where the company makes small change etc then registers new patent.
    With the lobbyists given the amount of free reign they have to basically bribe their way to new laws and the blatant abuse of even the existing laws by the drug cartels going unchecked I don't see any tightening of these laws in the near future. Even enforcing the existing laws and checking the blatant abuse would be a step in the right direction at the moment.
    Last edited by AndyD; 18-Jan-14 at 01:17 AM.
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