SARS red tape is killing business

[Mike Simmonds]

As an example: As proof of address, we provide SARS with a letter from the landlord, an invoice and statement showing a few months history of paying rent and bank statements showing the rent paid. No, this is not good enough, they want a signed copy of ALL the pages of the lease agreement. That's the rule and that is what they want. Stuff you, stuff the environment, stuff the trees required to print almost 30 pages.[/QUOTE]

Do you have a lights and water account from the municipality? Is it in the name of the company? The Gauteng SARS offices are now insisting on using the CRA01 form http://www.sars.gov.za/AllDocs/OpsDo...nal%20Form.pdf which has made the process a bit easier in most cases. If the municipal account is in the name of the landlord then the landlord can complete this form and provide a copy of his ID.

[Blurock]

As an example: As proof of address, we provide SARS with a letter from the landlord, an invoice and statement showing a few months history of paying rent and bank statements showing the rent paid. No, this is not good enough, they want a signed copy of ALL the pages of the lease agreement. That's the rule and that is what they want. Stuff you, stuff the environment, stuff the trees required to print almost 30 pages.

Do you have a lights and water account from the municipality? Is it in the name of the company? The Gauteng SARS offices are now insisting on using the CRA01 form http://www.sars.gov.za/AllDocs/OpsDo...nal%20Form.pdf which has made the process a bit easier in most cases. If the municipal account is in the name of the landlord then the landlord can complete this form and provide a copy of his ID.

[/QUOTE]

No, not accepted in the Durban or Umhlanga offices. You will abide by our rules andf that is it!

[Blurock]

We have now finally received our VAT number, after escalating it to SARS Service Monitoring Office (SSMO) ssmo@sars.gov.za. The branch was given 15 days to sort out the registration, but it took them 3 weeks! They never requested further information, had no follow up interviews or even visited our premises. So was the delay out of spite or incompetence?

In the initial application, the VAT101 was only captured on the SARS systems 33 working days after the actual acknowledgement of the receipt. This is in spite of follow up letters and visits to SARS to find out if they actually required any other supporting documentation to finalise the registration. Call centre enquiries stated only that the application is supposedly “In Progress”.

This the SARS Vision Statement:

SARS is an innovative revenue and customs agency that enhances economic growth and social development that supports the country’s integration into the global economy in a way that benefits all South Africans.

In my opinion they are not living up to their vision. We are a manufacturing concern creating meaningful direct and indirect employment. We are replacing imports which saves the outflow of revenue. We will soon be exporting, which will generate additional revenue. The almost 3 months it took to register a COMPULSORY VAT registration, harmed our business and delayed our marketing efforts. We could not register on supplier data bases as no-one will deal with a manufacturer that does not have a VAT number. It is also impossible to tender for any work without a VAT number.

We were placed at a price disadvantage to our competitors as we could not claim back any input VAT. We had to also delay staff employment as we could not go into full production foregoing our input VAT on raw materials etc.

Do we now blame foreigners for not investing here? Why do we have to put up with this?

[Justloadit]

I heard on 702 radio last night, that a Judge has been appointed to act as an ombudsman on SARS matters

[Peter Johns781]

It is understandable when looking at it from your point of view but what about theirs? The red tape might possibly be the best way to sort through legitimate and illegitimate people. Besides, policy is policy, as my boss usually says!

[CLIVE-TRIANGLE]

It is understandable when looking at it from your point of view but what about theirs? The red tape might possibly be the best way to sort through legitimate and illegitimate people. Besides, policy is policy, as my boss usually says!

Except for a number of issues that you must bear in mind:
1. Separate red tape from plain incompetence
2. As pointed out, registrants are not competitive when they have to include that VAT in their cost, and thus lose huge business.
3. The Act makes registration compulsory when R1m is exceeded; from that point onwards the registrant is non-compliant and that bridge will still have to be crossed!
4. The registrant indicates from which date he is liable; if it takes that many months to finalise the registration, he has already incurred significant penalties.
5. This is the worst; how much money does the fiscus actually lose in respect of VAT that they would have received, were it not for the delay.

I'm sure there are more.

The old story of fraudulent applications just does not wash. Not at all. These days refunds are rigorously audited before they are paid out. That there is fraud in their own midst is an absolute given, but that is no reason to make registration a bridge too far.

As for policy, my old boss used to say "policy se moer".

[Marq]

As part of the trade-off, there'll be no VAT refunds......

What trade off are you talking about?
They will make the application process much easier in return for not paying out legitimate claims? No trade off there.

So if you are not profitable, you are also penalised by SARS from a cashflow point of view.....thats assuming you will become profitable.

I always try and maintain a positive vat payment scenario to avoid any issues with the. At the beginning of the year had a situation that reduced the total payment to only R79. A bit down from my 'usual' payment. They invoked paragraph 6010 rule 3g of clause 6b subset c quad i) of some foreign tax law, which says...this guy is suspect having only paying us a small amount, how dare his business not make bucks like it usually does - therefore he is penalised and shall endure the wrath of many audits and questions and papers and phone calls to please explain this situation. And so it was that an extra months administration was involved with many high salaried individuals to explain why the R79 should not be R179.
So eventually I gave up and agreed to pay an extra R100 ( I kid you not it was about that) for having claimed an amount on an invoice which they felt was not in the production of income.

Through efiling, I followed their instructions on the phone on how to correct this situation. It seems afterwards that I did the adjustment in the wrong period - to fix the fix (with on the phone instruction and much frustration) has been a comedy of errors, along with penalties and interest for not having paid the full amount in the one period and letters of warnings for having overpaid in the next. I am still trying to correct this allocation problem. Seems as though I am incapable of following instruction and should be punished by the state.

Another scenario......I follow the efiling system which says:-

- fill in vat form, push the submit button which induces the payment form to popup which creates bucks out your bank. Simple right.....
Last year one of the periods did not happen properly because apparently per their expert on the phone, I pushed the manual submit button instead of the file your return button. This has created a situation of an unallocated payment and a return that still needs to be submitted.
So I asked - If one pushes the manual button, does the payment scenario happen automatically.
'No this cannot happen as the system would not know how much you must pay' - 'Ok' says I - 'then how did the automatic system take my bucks for the exact amount that the form said I must pay?"
They dont know - but what they do know is that I must write a letter - post office style, no email or efiling method - to their committee of ten to apologise for the error of my ways in not pushing the right button and creating all these problems and they will in turn look at and review the whole sorry state of affairs and perhaps reverse the penalties for not having submitted that months return.
I advocated that they had a payment and that it had not mattered whether the form had been manually submitted or which ever button had been pushed - the form had been saved on their system and seeing as everything was done by using their system they should be able to review their log and audit files and determine that a form had in fact been filed. Another ongoing outstanding problem created through efiling.

So lets talk about 'common sense' here....I dont think so - common sense = a basic knowledge of logic and simple mind activity.
Not likely to happen when it comes to sars. According to my records, I am up to date and have accounted to them for all. According to them, I am not up to date, have many outstanding issues and owe penalties and interest for having used their system correctly.

I sit here and think.. I am an accountant, I know this stuff, I know forms. I build websites and databases as well and yet somehow I have failed dismally to use what should be the easiest of all website systems to use. What is wrong with me? Then I realise....I am using the force of mind and logic to understand government and potential sycophantic drones, I should be using ....??.....gee I dont know what force one uses against such a thing.....dark magic comes to mind. Perhaps a course at Hogwarts will sort this out.

[wynn]

I am using the force of mind and logic to understand government and potential sycophantic drones, I should be using ....??.....gee I dont know what force one uses against such a thing.....dark magic comes to mind. Perhaps a course at Hogwarts will sort this out.

You call them 'Swivel Servants' because they sit on swivel chairs, and they run efficiently on KFC.
No KFC and they develop that 'Civil Servant Shuffle' you know the one where they heave a huge sigh and sort of waddle over the area from cabinet to printer as if they are walking barefoot of broken glass.

Supply KFC and you will get the finest service available.

[Marq]

KFC = Komrades Fuel Cell - right ... sort of gives you wings.

[AndyD]

... sort of gives you wings.

Bingo wings.....