mega - alteration to electrical installation

**Leecatt** · 31-Jul-13, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dave A

I'm not sure that re-certified is an appropriate term to use here as there would be no previous certificate of compliance in place.

Effectively, upon the addition or alteration under the conditions applicable to subreg 3, the entire installation would have to be certified for the first time.

Correct.

**Leecatt** · 31-Jul-13, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by bergie

if i go install an extra plug, and tell the customer i have to inspect the complete house ,the customer will laugh at me.

Perhaps take along a copy of the regs and show them it?
Not an easy thing to have to do in the face of the present economic climate I will admit

**AndyD** · 03-Aug-13, 08:38 PM

I think it's an ill-considered move to have removed the option to just certify the new installation work on a property. I know for myself we've moved completely out of domestic electrics on existing installations over the years and I can see more and more conciencious installers going the same route. There's no ways a ligitimate installer who has to certify the entire premises can compete with a cowboy who doesn't when it comes to minor additions and repairs. In the past it was a selling point that you would supply a cert just for the new installation work you've performed and most customers were happy to pay a premium for someone who would issue a certificate but that won't be the case if they're cornered into major remedial works on the rest of the house.
I can actually see this becoming a contributor to poorer installation standards and safety in the domestic market.

**bergie** · 04-Aug-13, 09:02 AM

what about a factory? if you do an addition ,how far do you go with inspecting the rest of the installation?

**AndyD** · 04-Aug-13, 07:04 PM

We're kinda lucky that with all our commercial and industrial customers we have over the years managed to get them completely safe and mostly if not completely compliant. We're more in the market of long term customers and not one-off jobs and the new customers we occasionally get that show no motivation to become compliant are dropped for other customers who do have an interest in being compliant.

I think out of all our main regular customers there's only one definate and possibly a second that hasn't got a valid COC for the entire installation. With these customers I will inform them about the full compliance requirement and carry on pushing towards it but until then we'll carry on just certifying or additions and alterations and I'm pretty sure they'll be compliant long before anyone starts policing it.

**Leecatt** · 05-Aug-13, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by bergie

what about a factory? if you do an addition ,how far do you go with inspecting the rest of the installation?

Very interesting comment

**Dave A** · 05-Aug-13, 10:04 AM

How about when you add a prepaid meter?

I suppose that should be a question in two parts - there are the municipal prepaid meters, and then the "private" prepaid meter systems being fitted by owners to manage the electricity supply of tenants.

And then there are the ripple relays being fitted on geyser circuits by municipalities. That's a change to the installation too. Are they checking for a current COC on the rest of the installation?

**AndyD** · 05-Aug-13, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dave A

How about when you add a prepaid meter?

I suppose that should be a question in two parts - there are the municipal prepaid meters, and then the "private" prepaid meter systems being fitted by owners to manage the electricity supply of tenants.

We don't do very many prepaid installations but we did two recently that were for municipal billing and a valid COC was required by council before reconnection.
The disconnect/reconnect applications recently also have required valid COC's.

Originally Posted by Dave A

And then there are the ripple relays being fitted on geyser circuits by municipalities. That's a change to the installation too. Are they checking for a current COC on the rest of the installation?

That would be interesting to know but I don't think they've been installing them locally to me. I don't see how it could be avoided.

**ians** · 05-Aug-13, 10:37 AM

Eskom (private contractors) are installing timers in peoples DB's and they issue a COC for the timer only. Lead by example, if they don't need to supply a COC for the entire installation why do we have to? The best part is the workmanship, I would have failed the installation.

**Dave A** · 05-Aug-13, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ians

Lead by example, if they don't need to supply a COC for the entire installation why do we have to?

Kinda sums things up pretty neatly, I think.

It sounds like this needs to get on ECA technical committee agendas around the country - with this discussion on isolating transformers / ELV installations an example of the sort of thing that's happening as consequence. There's something wrong when people start steering away from the best practice solutions purely to avoid statutory complications. The statutory environment should be encouraging and even rewarding best practice, not penalising it.