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Thread: Culture of entitlement

  1. #11
    Gold Member Chrisjan B's Avatar
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    Sad but true unfortunately!

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  2. #12
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quite a bit to chew on there that I personally wasn't putting in the area of "entitlement"

  3. #13
    Bronze Member Miro Bagrov's Avatar
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    What I mean is, it's just hard for a businessman to succeed, and just run his shop in isolation. Someday someone will walk in and blow his brains out for the little bit of cash in his till.
    It's just not worth it. I think a lot of people have figured that out.

    That's why no one wants to try make anything really productive, they just want to "spoon off the corners" so to say...
    It's not because education is low, they just are rightly scared and would rather produce pot-plants than to forge steel because no one will kill them over a plant. But with steel, some angry worker will one day come and zap them with a knife, quick quick, and no one will do anything about it.

    Edit: It does link with entitlement - because every criminal out there thinks he has entitlement to my property.

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  5. #14
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    It wasn't just your post I was referring to, Miro.

    And yes, I concede the problem may well have a wider scope than I had originally perceived.

  6. #15
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    I see this country as un-investable... It's fees are too high, it's taxes are too stiff, and it's people can't be trusted with a roll of toilet paper...
    That's why no one wants to try make anything really productive, they just want to "spoon off the corners" so to say...
    It's not because education is low, they just are rightly scared and would rather produce pot-plants than to forge steel because no one will kill them over a plant. But with steel, some angry worker will one day come and zap them with a knife, quick quick, and no one will do anything about it.
    Kudos, Miro Bagrov. These are some of the most astute & accurate perceptions I have come across. Brilliant.

    The progression of the argument from entitlement to marauding is an eye-opener, you are correct, Sir.
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  7. #16
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    A recent example:

    1. A large group wants to divest out of a particular product line.
    2. A small consortium (closed corporation) is formed to manufacture the product & sell it into this group, who then focus purely on marketing & selling said product.
    3. In order to build a trading profile & eventually spin the CC into a standalone venture, it uses an existing CC to do its invoicing & payments (an incubated venture).
    4. Members as follows : invoicing CC - 100% member A; incubated CC - wife of member A / member B / member C
    5. Wife of member A is a qualified book-keeper & keeps the books for the invoicing CC.
    6. Member C calls for a Trial Balance of the incubated CC's books - takes some 4 months before figures are released. Major irregularities obvious.
    7. Presses for clarification, to allow tax year-end closure, only to be told after some 5 months of trading that business is 'dormant'.
    8. Keeps pressing for further clarity - cannot penetrate through the wall set up by invoicing CC's (member A) & incubated CC's wife of member A & member B.
    9. All trading funds have never reached incubated CC's bank account, but remained in invoicing CC.
    10. The invoicing CC's Member A has essentially hijacked the incubated CC - in total - with the assistance of his wife & member B of the incubated CC.
    11. The story gets more involved... for another day.
    12. The matter is now being resolved by attorney/advocates.
    13. SA law is an ass & has no reasonable remedy to solve the matter.
    14. Court cases would take up to 3 years to complete.
    15. A clear case of fraud you may say? Well, even if a full docket was presented to SAPS by an independent consultant, it is unlikely it would even be opened in 3 years - if at all.

    The absolute irony of the whole situation is as follows:
    a. Member C of the incubated CC is a technology guru, who has now with-held further technical support until matter resolved.
    b. Incubated CC now dying - leading to loss of jobs.
    c. Member C had a raft of new technologies about to be implemented in the incubated CC - these have been shelved.
    d. The incubated CC is now dying, since, without member C, it cannot design new systems, or quote on said.

    Attempting to run a high-tech operation in SA is fraught with incredible difficulties. A total waste of time. Spooning from the edges - indeed...

    Was the invoicing CC's member A entitled to the moneys from the incubated CC, or was he merely marauding? This fellow has actually convinced his wife & Member B of incubated CC, that he is entitled to the moneys he has hijacked. He really does...

    Miro Bagrov, you are correct - in my view.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

  8. #17
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desA View Post
    The progression of the argument from entitlement to marauding is an eye-opener
    Yep - my thought exactly.

    In fact it was your first post in this thread that really introduced the uncomfortable thought - even though the connection wasn't immediately obvious at that point.

    I'm probably going to put this badly, but this is about the best way I can think of to explain what I see has gone wrong here:

    Getting robbed is a miserable, unfair experience.
    There's a clear fork in the road when it comes to the product of this experience.

    You can either go:
    • "I have been a victim of this unfair event - this is so unfair and miserable, I'm not going to do this to anyone else and be the cause of similar suffering to others" and conduct your affairs accordingly, or
    • "I have been a victim of this unfair event - this is so unfair and miserable that I am therefor entitled to do the same to others" and conduct your affairs accordingly.

    During the Rainbow Nation period we seemed to have chosen the first option.
    But we've steadily drifted across to the second option.
    And by ever increasing degrees.

    It starts out as "it's OK to compensate for your losses this way", but it's the thin edge of the wedge and over time has grown in ever more vicious circles to a perfectly valid way to get ahead.

  9. #18
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    It starts out as "it's OK to compensate for your losses this way", but it's the thin edge of the wedge and over time has grown in ever more vicious circles to a perfectly valid way to get ahead.
    Is this trend reversible? If so, how would this be done?

    I have the impression that many folks have considered that the point of no return has been passed some years ago.

    With a SAPS that is totally incompetent, & disinterested - with a legal system that is an ass - with a country with little, or no social contract & ever-decreasing moral/ethics - how would this trend be reversed?
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

  10. #19
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desA View Post
    Is this trend reversible?
    Miro's first post in this thread shows anything's undoable...

    Quote Originally Posted by desA View Post
    If so, how would this be done?
    ... although hopefully not through the anarchy he points to

    Ultimately it was my concern that there's a growing list of things that might only be undone with significant social upheaval that got me raising the issue in the first place. I foresee a "Thatcher vs the unions" level moment as a bare minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by desA View Post
    I have the impression that many folks have considered that the point of no return has been passed some years ago.
    Let's hope not. At the very least, if we're to stand a chance of reversing the trend without too much social distress, we need to stop the rot as soon as possible.

    And the first step is to haul out the problem and where it's coming from into the light.

  11. #20
    Email problem Didditmiself's Avatar
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    I was at the Securex Expo at Gallagher Estate on Wednesday. Besides all the innovative companies there, what caught my eye was the number of Chinese ones. Why is it that if you have a business, you are compelled to employ a certain amount of people from the different race groups otherwise you can forget about tendering for state and quasi state enterprises. But it looks like the Chinese don't seem to have this problem. I don't know of any of them that are BBBEE rated, yet the majority of stuff the government purchases is Chinese and the companies' in SA only seem to employ Chinese? And there is no sense of entitlement with the Chinese or Asian or European. But only African.
    What can be done to reverse the tide (as Dave asked)? It seems not a lot because in the minds of the culprits, the sense of entitlement is so entrenched that it will lead to all out confrontation (read civil war). It starts at the top; if we were to have a decisive leader who is unblemished, unafraid and determined to lead the country to prosperity and not go into politics for his/her own end, it would go a helluva long way towards solving the problem. No cadre deployment. Severe penalties for corruption. Quick firing of lazy and wasteful employees etc etc. Look at the female President in (I think it's in Kenya) who got rid of her executive jet and now flies in a state aeroplane. Or David Cameron who travels by bicycle to work. But Zuma must have a new jet because it's got 500 hours on the clock. 500 hours! Bloody things' hardly run in. Sense of entitlement. Nkandla costing millions and millions of tax payers' money. Entitlement. Increase in salary despite poor work performance. Entitlement. The whole of the ANC Cabinet is filled with a sense of entitlement - there are one or two exceptions, of course!
    Blurock you say just blaming others does not change anything, you say it starts with me. I think it starts with the leader. And then the others will follow the change. It's no good if we change but the leader stays the same but is too greedy to change.

  12. Thank given for this post:

    Blurock (23-Jun-13), Chrisjan B (22-Jun-13), Dave A (23-Jun-13)

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