Is Lyoness a scam?

[OnePilot]

Strong words mvubu

Did you read the information I offered - all 20 odd pages?

I thought it gave a very good and balanced view of what the business is about!

Fortunately I do not have to convince you or anyone else - nor defend the company -
Lyoness is old enough = 10 years plus and big enough = more than 1000 staff members, over 3,2 million members, 45 offices world wide.

I do encourage people to do their own due diligence in whatever business they become involved in whether it be this one or any of the other thousands available and there is always a lot to be said about all of them - good and bad.

So .......... are you a member and do you know what is happening? or are you quoting others?

Not sure what you are referring to as a proven lie?

I suggest that you check your source of information, because as a member of Lyoness you would know what the truth is

Edcon group and Dischem are very much doing business with Lyoness!

As are companies such as Boots, Harrods and Marks & Spencers in the UK, The Walmart Group, Sears, Macy's in USA, the whole (i.e. all the stores) in the Mall of the Emirates in Dubai, Coles in Australia to name a few of the larger chain stores world wide!

As I said I do not need to "defend" any company nor my reasons for being a member of any company or group, that is the right each individual and I respect that right.

I do however prefer to consider the facts available rather than quote others!
Do you have the facts?

[mvubu]

I notice you ignored the PnP, Woolies points. You also ignored the "business op" side of things. The shopping might even be legit, but the discounts are rubbish and the general dealers signed up are even worse.

The numbers speak for themselves. A board position costs R500. at 1% that means you need R50,000 of shopping for 1 position.
But wait, you can skip that and pay R20k and buy up all the R500 positions on the board. You can then get your mates to do the same and you can earn huge sums of money doing it.
Forget the shopping - it is ruse to deflect the true purpose here, which is a plain garden variety pyramid scheme.
Follow the money... it isn't difficult, for those who were not born yesterday and have witnessed hundreds of similar scams fail in the past.

[mvubu]

That website is just another Lyoness shill site list at the address of know scammers and fraud hosting service.
Have a google: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309, Arizona

And how big do things need to get before they fall over? Here is only ONE of the latest:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtou...rrender-gains/

In SA the proceeds of pyramid schemes are fully recoverable from ALL beneficiaries in the pipeline and this has been confirmed by the SCA in 2 cases.

You would do well to read more than the marketing bumf feed to you by the company.

[OnePilot]

mvubu

Did you read the review? here is the link again www.lyonessscamreview.info

You obviously have not studied the Lyoness program at all! because the figures you are quoting are absolute nonsense

Regarding PnP and Woolies - yes they are no longer part of Lyoness
Do you recall when Discovery launched their credit card - they were affiliated to Woolworths?
Then they parted company! Now after a number of years they are back again
Business partners come and go - as all business owners know.

Judging by your comments you clearly have a lot of experience of witnessing these "scams" - first hand or via the internet?

[OnePilot]

Interesting that you choose to compare Zeekrewards a less than 1 year old company

With Lyoness a 10 year plus company that has ISO 9001 Accreditation, is registered with SARS, the South African Reserve bank, and South African Consumer Protection Act as well as having a physical presence in every one of the 45 countries that they trade in!

I did do my due diligence as I always do not just the bumf

[Dave A]

Did you read the information I offered - all 20 odd pages?

I thought it gave a very good and balanced view of what the business is about!

Actually, I did take the time today. And had a look at the official Lyoness website too.
Thought it was about time after watching this particular conversation.

Do you have the facts?

And after all that reading, I have to say - no!

That website is just another Lyoness shill site list at the address of know scammers and fraud hosting service.

I confess I did chuckle a bit when I got to this part on MLM's -

MLM FEEDER SITES
Many MLM companies have 'feeder' sites. Sites that claim to be authorities on the MLM industry or small business but that actually act as a place to collect data and prospects. Shortly after Lyoness came out these sites were awash with 'so called reviews'.
Designed to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of any team member who was thinking of jumping ship, or potential new prospect who was weighing up their options, they had the effect of creating a sub culture of misinformation. Part of the reason I am taking the time to write all this down for you.

Well, maybe this one isn't there to collect data and prospects, but it certainly is full of the official company line and quite clearly there to influence prospects and try to discredit critics!

Which brings me to the question the following raised (which is why I decided to start digging) and that I couldn't seem to find an answer for. Perhaps you can help fill me in.

The numbers speak for themselves. A board position costs R500. at 1% that means you need R50,000 of shopping for 1 position.
But wait, you can skip that and pay R20k and buy up all the R500 positions on the board. You can then get your mates to do the same and you can earn huge sums of money doing it.
Forget the shopping - it is ruse to...

Actually, the numbers don't speak for themselves, and I'm as confused as all heck.

I found mention of a $3000 pre-payment deal, both on the shill site and the official site, but that also was as clear as mud as to why you should want to do that.

Help!
What exactly is the reward structure of Lyoness?
What is the progression system?
And where and how does this pre-payment stuff fit in?

[OnePilot]

Hi Dave - quite honestly I didn't expect you or anyone else that is new to the company to have all the facts at first glance, and so I could rest my case with most of the commentators here too.

Suffice to say that the vast majority of the company members - over 90% world wide - are simply "shoppers and referrers" which we obviously welcome because that is the backbone of the system

However to give a bit more insight

There are currently 12 income streams and the down payment (what you refer to as pre-payment deal) is a fast track option to open a number of these income streams up as a premium member, if, as with any company, you are prepared to work the business.

As you said "the numbers ........... speak for themselves" made mention by mvubu, make no sense, because what has been quoted is out of context and the numbers are nonsense

To fully understand the complex reward structure does take a while, certainly for me it did.

That being said it is not because it is hidden, it is in plain site - just needs to be understood! and there is plenty training provided to empower one to do just that

As with most referral marketing companies they don't paste it on their front page - although Lyoness seems to have more than most as you may have noticed!

Once registered as a member (for free, with no obligation, autoship etc) - your back-office has a lot more information which I believe is standard practice!

[Dave A]

Ian, my interest at this point is solely to get to terms with Mvubu's allegation.

To fully understand the complex reward structure does take a while, certainly for me it did.

That being said it is not because it is hidden, it is in plain site

It seems I must have missed it then. Please point me in the right direction. First prize would be a document that sets out the rules of the reward structure.

So far I've managed to patch together some basics, but that doesn't explain the aspect that Mvubu refers to and I've quoted above (which I note you have not repudiated so far).

[rom828]

Ian

In response to your comments "One thing that is great about Google is that it WILL find what you are asking it to find"....well that works both ways to whichever side of the fence you sit.

I have been to the Business Information Session and even signed up as a member (because it's free, at that stage PnPay, Woolies were still part of the 'system') although I haven't used it for one purchase. Like I said before it's the "fast track option to open a number of these income streams up as a premium member" that is the problem and pyramid scheme part....and unless you 'invest' the R20 000 and get fast tracked it's going to be years before you really make any money through your rewards, it's that simple.

Also if you will read the General Terms and Conditions 3.4, you are not allowed to recruit through any forum or media format, so in actual fact your membership should be suspended and that includes the 5 levels of introducer's in your line. That is clearly mentioned in the Business Information Session and I have it recorded.

[OnePilot]

@ Dave

The GT&C's has the rules of the rewards structure. which I can email you !

@ rom828
"In response to your comments "One thing that is great about Google is that it WILL find what you are asking it to find"....well that works both ways to whichever side of the fence you sit."
I agree with you 100% unfortunately most people tend to take on the negative and ignore anything else they are happily programmed to do that.

"I have been to the Business Information Session and even signed up as a member (because it's free, at that stage PnPay, Woolies were still part of the 'system') although I haven't used it for one purchase. Like I said before it's the "fast track option to open a number of these income streams up as a premium member" that is the problem and pyramid scheme part....and unless you 'invest' the R20 000 and get fast tracked it's going to be years before you really make any money through your rewards, it's that simple."

If one takes any Networking program - they all maintain that 5 to 7 years is the time frame one should be looking at to "make" your money if you are working the business, and I don't believe that this program is any different in that regard!
How much time does it take to build up some decent money in the PnP Smart Shopper rewards program? or Clicks or Dischem?

Why is fast tracking a pyramid scheme?

"invest" as you are well aware is NOT what you are doing with your R 20k it IS a down payment for future purchases - just like a lay-bye, and I think the internet article I quoted earlier sets it out very well