Who is responsible for COC

[gobbleteller]

A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no change to the electrical installation and for a maximum of 2 years.

Dave, are you saying that a CoC is only valid for two years? The reason I ask is that your statement doesn't make sense...A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no changes to the electrical installation... and for a maximum of two years...

Martinco's question was if the COC would still be valid after three years if no alterations had been made. The electrical installation isn't being sold, the insurance merely needs a valid CoC for insurance purposes. It should be easy to answer it with a yes or no.

"5) Subject to the provisions of section 10(4) of the Act, the user or lessor may not allow a change of ownership if the certificate of compliance is older than two years."

I'm no English teacher but this statement doesn't say that the CoC is only valid for two years, it merely states that a change of ownership cannot occur if the electrical installation's CoC is older than two years.

[julies]

CB rating is
I dont see an isolator for geyser
I am not sure what type of cable it is
Not burried very deep in my opinion, I asked the gardener to do the flower beds and remove a small tree, he nearly cut the cable. Well he hit the cable in diffrent places
I am not sure if the fitting was there when a COC was done/issued. The estate agent said he has already got the COC but when i went to look at the house i saw all these issues, so I was wondering how the COC has already been issued with all these concerns.

We are still busy with the property transfer at the attorneys

[AndyD]

The circuits may or may not be compliant, it's difficult to say without more accurate details. A geyser does require an isolater switch at the cylinder itself. If the garden flat cable is SWA it's probably compliant, if it isn't there a good chance it's not compliant. There's nothing to stop you getting another electrician to test the installation if you've got doubts.

[Dave A]

Dave, are you saying that a CoC is only valid for two years?

No - I'm saying that in terms of the law it may only be deemed valid for a maximum of two years.

The reason I ask is that your statement doesn't make sense...A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no changes to the electrical installation... and for a maximum of two years...

Martinco's question was if the COC would still be valid after three years if no alterations had been made. The electrical installation isn't being sold, the insurance merely needs a valid CoC for insurance purposes. It should be easy to answer it with a yes or no.

The legal position is clear. The answer is no.

To try to remove your confusion -

Here's one of the core problems in play - there can be a change to the electrical installation at any time, even within hours!!
For example, the earth leakage unit goes faulty (it happens).
An earth connection is lost (it happens).
It rains, there's moisture ingress into the installation somewhere, and suddenly the insulation impedance reading plummets.

I suggest the way to look at it is there are two "clocks" ticking.
One is time.
The second is events (which could be overt and known, or covert and unnoticed).
Either one trips, and the COC is no longer legally valid.

[DieterT]

The first question should be "Why do we require a CoC?"
Once you understand the reason for a CoC alot of reasoning around the "lifetime" of a CoC would be understood and what kind of tests would be required for what type of installation.

The life time of a CoC does not expire after 2years nor 5years nor 10years. Seems like this time period changes every year or so...

A CoC is valid for what it has been issued for i.e. should you install a circuit from the DB board feeding 2 plugpoints with a 16A circuit breaker, you will issue a CoC from the supply to the point of consumption on all 4 points. Design, Material & Procurement, Construction and Test & Inspection.

Now BoB comes and installs 2 additional plug points after your installation. Now he has to issue a CoC for those 2 new points, thus from supply to point of consumption he will issue a CoC only for the 2 new points, but will include test results he carries out on the circuit you installed and on his CoC he will only cover the design,construction,material and procurement of his 2 new plugs and their piece of cable fed from your plug circuit, but the Test & Inspection of the whole circuit from point of supply to point of consumption.

Now, this is debatable I understand, but remember if you carry out your tests correctly and done a visual inspection correctly any defects and abnormalities would be picked up on the original installation. Also there is a section 3 on CoC where BoB would clearly indicate his responsibilities of his work and materials used and that what is not covered by his test report.

Therefor, never get rid of a old CoC. Every CoC is valid for what it has been issued for. From the construction of the premesis with all of its renovations and changes up to the point where it is made safe and disconnected (yes you give a CoC for that also) Demolished and rebuilt and a brand spanking new CoC is issued. Even then you still keep all the original CoCs as the one to be issued once the premesis is rebuilt will be deemed as a supplimentary CoC.

The "lifetime" is only a "guideline" for selling and transfering of property from one owner to the next. Not for reason to make money, but for reason to make sure it complies and is safe for use. Also not to check up on previous electricians (as they where supposed to have done everything correctly) but more to make sure that there has been no modifications made to the transformer feeding the premesis (tap changed) therefor testing the PSCC and making sure that there is still a earth/neutral on the transformer feeding the property (yes they tend to dissapear...) Loop Impedance.

Then obviously to make sure that all the tests are of desired results and visually everything complies. This being that only the Test & Inspection part of the CoC is to be completed for the transfer or selling of property (except if any modifications are made in order to have premesis comply for purpose of issuing a CoC)

I ask therefor not implying as I know the Occupational Health and Safety Act states all these words that can be manipulated to make any situation feasable, but at the end of the day being either the client or the electrician is going to stand in front of the judge having to explian death/injury or loss of property whould a civil case have been opened.

Procecuted by the government represented by the inspector with all his evidence, what is going to be your defence? A bunch of words in the OHSA or the physical tests that had been preformed and deligated responsibilities given through CoC signed be an registered electrician?

Even thou the OHSA states that the responsibility lays with the user and lessor of an installation remember that if you got an registered electrician to install and certify that installation then the responsibilty lays with him as the professional and not yourself, but should you the user or lessor of an installation have used some guy from the street and he did not have a liscence guess who is going to be procecuted in court? And guess what the insurance company would say should they request the certificate and electrician's credentials?

Apart from caring about safety, someone needs to be blamed...

[Sparks]

What people cannot seem to realise is that the electrical COC can be likend to their car COF. When a car changes ownership it must be recertified as fit to use on a public road. The COC serves the same function re an electrical installation. Should a car be pulled over @ a roadblock and found to have any faults in obvious contravention, the disc will be removed and that car must be tested again. If you buy a car without brakes and you are not informed thereof and you have a fatal accident driving away, the seller can face culpable homicide charges. Using an uncertified electrical installation is the same as driving a car which does not have a COF. The COC must be seen as equivalent to a car COF. The only people who do not want to have the book thrown @ their electrical installations are the sellers, as with the COF they are quite prepared to pay someone off to give an invalid one. Buyers must take a stand and insist that they use their own electricians to certify their new purchases. If the purchaser does not have an electrician he can Google for one and if he fancies a reputable one because of his advert, that contractor will willing supply references. Websites listing complaints about contractors can also be usefull to find a reputable contractor.