Poll: Bonds & Banks - What is your opinion?

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Thread: Conspiracy of Silence -- Are you being robbed by your Bank?

  1. #11
    Moderator IanF's Avatar
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    Darkangel,
    When I go to those sites I am totally baffled that is why when I get someone who is straightforward punting this I want to ask the questions. Now for the banks to prove the debt they pull out an agreement and a statement. There is still a balance on the statement what do you put forward as proof of payment?
    Only stress when you can change the outcome!

  2. #12
    Silver Member Darkangelyaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanF View Post
    Darkangel,
    When I go to those sites I am totally baffled that is why when I get someone who is straightforward punting this I want to ask the questions. Now for the banks to prove the debt they pull out an agreement and a statement. There is still a balance on the statement what do you put forward as proof of payment?
    Yes, it is overwhelming and confusing at first.

    1. First ask the bank for a copy of your credit agreement.There you will be able to see whom you actually signed with.
    2. Ask them outright whether your bond has been securitised. If it has, silence is normally the loud reply. If it hasn't, they should confirm that in writing.
    3. Once you have these answers, you can decide which steps to follow.
    Needless to say, the banks are not very forthcoming with info.
    Also contact ScottyC, on here, or view his youtube videos about the dark secrets of money. (Scott Cundill)
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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanF View Post
    OK now someone else has paid your loan (cession to this organisation) you still owe on the loan. This is then administered by the bank and you still owe it. Where can you show value paid. Isn't like financing a car you are the owner but the bank has the title to the car until you settle. How do you prove you have paid?
    Then lets extend this to your company doing invoice discounting. After that how can you claim from your customer as you have been paid and then the customer refuses to pay the invoice.
    If you discount an invoice, the factoring company will collect the debt on your behalf as you have sold all your rights to the proceeds of the invoice to them. If the debtor defaults, the factor can still claim from you in a "with recourse" agreement as you are guaranteeing payment by the debtor. Non-recourse agreements are not normally done in South Africa due to the perceived risk.

    You may also have an arrangement where you discount an invoice or debt, but the factor allows you to collect the debt on their behalf. This is called a non-disclosed agreement.

    When you pay the shop by credit card, the same principles as with factoring applies. The shop owner "discounts" the invoice with the card company who in turn will collect from the card holder.
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  4. #14
    Moderator IanF's Avatar
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    @blurock thanks for explaining the invoice discounting this is now understandable.
    @darkangel I still can't get my head around how you can prove payment due to securitisation of your loan! Need to put on my deep thinking cap.
    Only stress when you can change the outcome!

  5. #15
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Even if the securitisation of your bond has taken place, the bank in all probability still stands as the responsible institution/collector in collecting the repayment of the original loan. In the case of non payment of the loan, whether the bank or whether the new owner of the debt will still follow the legal steps to collect their outstanding payment. The manner in which the securitisation is being presented, is giving a false impression that once the bank has securitised the bond, that the original bond is no longer payable. This to me is incorrect, you made a loan, and now you must pay it back.
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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanF View Post
    @blurock thanks for explaining the invoice discounting this is now understandable.
    @darkangel I still can't get my head around how you can prove payment due to securitisation of your loan! Need to put on my deep thinking cap.
    You can never get out of a debt because the debt has been ceded or sold to another party. The principle is; you owe money, you pay.
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  7. #17
    Diamond Member Citizen X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    You can never get out of a debt because the debt has been ceded or sold to another party. The principle is; you owe money, you pay.
    Here we need cold hard facts! How many actual people were thus far successful in extinguishing their debt on the basis of securitisation? I intend making a post about the Constitution referal/appeals process; many have tried and failed. At the first instance The Constitutional Court wants some very simple and straight forward information from you! What Constitutional right was infringed and what Constitutional issue is involved here. At this juncture, they don't really want any long story, just that!
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  8. #18
    Moderator IanF's Avatar
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    OK so now we need to find out what the legal mechanisms are? It seems most here agree.
    Only stress when you can change the outcome!

  9. #19
    Diamond Member Citizen X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanF View Post
    OK so now we need to find out what the legal mechanisms are? It seems most here agree.
    Very true Ian, I'll be perfectly honest with you, I haven’t had a chance to study all of the New Economic Alliances documents and court papers etc; there’s quite a bit! In fairness to them, I will want to properly study their documents before I give my layperson’s findings! Regardless, any appeal is almost always based on a question of law as opposed to a question of fact.(some insight, in criminal matters the Supreme Court of Appeal won’t hear an appeal on questions of fact simply because the trial court is in a far better position to assess aspects such as credibility of witnesses which you can’t really do on paper. That said, Scotty has given indication that this is bound to be a Constitutional Court matter. The ‘legal mechanism ,’ or question to the CC will simply initially be “Is there a Constitutional issue involved here in the first place? ”What Constitutional right has been infringed?”
    So, yes, its legal mechanisms we mostly interested in. I think this is so, so that we can get a fair idea of what their prospects of success are? Going forward, there is a very special and specific Constitutional Court Appeal i.e. appeal from Supreme Court of Leave to CC that I very specifically want to use to demonstrate how clearly and concisely the CC wants things unpacked. In short this woman was convicted of murder, she went right through to the SCA, but did not succeed. She appealed to the CC as the CC says actually anyone that acts in the interst of themselves or a group of people with common cause may petition the court on Constitutional issues. They don’t hear any other issue and have made that clear in case law. She created a longwinded , long, very long, about the turn, too long story about battered women syndrome and how the SCA did not regard this. In short the CC averred that she did not apply for leave to appeal on grounds of new evidence and even if she did, her matter was not a Constitutional issue not matter how she attempted to make it seem as though it was a Constitutional issue….
    I have no doubt that Scotty and company have their hearts in the right place but one must never underestimate the banks as a boxing contender: They the reigning heavy weight champion money wise!!!
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  10. #20
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Banks are ok for investments but I fear because long term work and or “permanent work” is going the way of the dodo so will long-term investments. Fact is a 10 year investment becomes a gamble if your contract at your employer only extends for a few months.

    I always said that labour brokers will be a massive negative on our economy but if you look at what is happening at the moment you realise that “investments” can no longer cope simply because the income capital is not there to support the structure.

    Thus the total investment power of the company will diminish over the next 5 to 10 years leaving the supper wealthy to feed off each other like parasites.

    That said 5 year investment plans along with flexible “trusts” is the new solution “low risk” and reasonable rewards are attractive to the “average investor”

    The actual ownership of rare metals is also on the rise. Silver especially… as it is cheaper then Gold but still retain good value and as it is slowly becoming more expensive to mine silver, you know the value will grow steadily but slowly.

    But in all honesty I am looking forward to the new government body that will regulate the value of property. It will appropriately devaluate property thus making it more affordable to buy and to restore.

    Right now property is at a all time high, broken down homes with high restoration costs still sells for millions. This is not an investment it is extortion.
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