Writing COC

[Pieter00]

Am i correct to say that: if an original coc does excist for the installation and any alterations occurred after it was issued, a coc has to be done for the whole installation and include all the alterations in it as the original coc would have no value due to the alteration that wasn't mentioned on it?

Am i correct in saying that if the original coc is of no value, a new coc must be done for the whole electrical installation before a coc can be done for a specific circuit that was altered andif the owner doesn't want a new coc cause it costs to much to fix the mistakes it must be put in writing that he is liable for it, thus meaning you can't give him a coc for the altered circuit you worked on?

[Leecatt]

Am i correct to say that: if an original coc does excist for the installation and any alterations occurred after it was issued, a coc has to be done for the whole installation and include all the alterations in it as the original coc would have no value due to the alteration that wasn't mentioned on it?

Am i correct in saying that if the original coc is of no value, a new coc must be done for the whole electrical installation before a coc can be done for a specific circuit that was altered andif the owner doesn't want a new coc cause it costs to much to fix the mistakes it must be put in writing that he is liable for it, thus meaning you can't give him a coc for the altered circuit you worked on?

The bottom line is that the entire installation must be covered by a coc, or collection of related coc's, whether the owner wants it or not, for reasons which I mentioned in my previous post.
The owner cannot issue a letter claiming responsibility, it would not hold up in a court of law in my opinion.
If you believe the installation to be a danger then you must disconnect it and inform your area authorities of this action.
The regulations are extremely clear on this.

[ians]

Beware of customers who have a plug installed and request a COC, sometimes they do this to get a COC then use it to sell the house, because the person receiving the COC during the sale doesn't know how to identify if the COC is filled out correctly or even if the COC valid.

I have noticed that the municipalities are getting wise, the last COC I handed in was checked by one of their technical staff before they would accept it, it is about time. Another contractor handing in his COC had to take it back because the values in section 4 were not filled in, makes you wonder.

[Leecatt]

Beware of customers who have a plug installed and request a COC, sometimes they do this to get a COC then use it to sell the house, because the person receiving the COC during the sale doesn't know how to identify if the COC is filled out correctly or even if the COC valid.

I have noticed that the municipalities are getting wise, the last COC I handed in was checked by one of their technical staff before they would accept it, it is about time. Another contractor handing in his COC had to take it back because the values in section 4 were not filled in, makes you wonder.

The following clause in the Regulations should counter this problem.

9.................
(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that;
(a) a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
(b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
(c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe.

[ians]

The clause means nothing to a clerk sitting in a office receiving COCs for transfers, so long as it is yellow and has X amount of pages they don't know the difference.

The electrical contractor is aware of the clauses and regulations (well some of them) but once handed to the customer, who knows what the customer might use it for, just tooo many loop holes in the system.

[Leecatt]

The clause means nothing to a clerk sitting in a office receiving COCs for transfers, so long as it is yellow and has X amount of pages they don't know the difference.

The electrical contractor is aware of the clauses and regulations (well some of them) but once handed to the customer, who knows what the customer might use it for, just tooo many loop holes in the system.

Hi Ians,
I hear what you are saying.

However, the electrician cannot issue an electrical certificate for one plug alone, without satisfying himself that the original electrical installation is either reasonably safe or complies with the SANS 10142-1:2009 and in both cases, is subsequently certified.
The COC has provision for the electrician to enter the unique number of the original certificate onto the additional certificate.

What most electricians do not understand is that when their customer asks them to install an additional point to an existing installation, they should inform the customer that an inspection has to be done on the original electrical installation to ascertain its compliance. If there is no original certificate then one has to be issued for the entire installation including the new point.

Its all there in the regulations and once the responsible electrician implements the regulations, it then it wont matter what the clerk does.

I hope this makes it a little clearer.

[Pieter00]

Oky, I understand,
thank you!

[ians]

I agree with you 100%, if only people where more responsible or the system worked more efficiently and there were steps taken against people who don't comply, blah, blah let me go wind up my violin, the same tune is playing and nobody listening. This tune is like you not texting while driving, but there is nothing you can do about it, even though it is against the law, driving in the orange line, etc, etc. You cant beat them join them, maybe one day they will also scrap emergency lanes and the red carpet (bus lane), COCs and become more like the 3rd world country we live in.

I was out on a farm yesterday, my mate just purchased, the COC is not valid, the electrical installation is as illegal as can be, for example the outdoor weather proof DB doesn't even have a cover over the breakers, the list is 5 pages long, what is going to be done about it, NOTHING, why because as most customers say, just fix it and make it right, he couldn't be bothered to pay for the investigation, pay for the repairs then have to try claim the money back, it is cheaper and less hassle just fixing it himself.

[Leecatt]

I agree with you 100%, if only people where more responsible or the system worked more efficiently and there were steps taken against people who don't comply, blah, blah let me go wind up my violin, the same tune is playing and nobody listening.
I was out on a farm yesterday, my mate just purchased, the COC is not valid, the electrical installation is as illegal as can be, for example the outdoor weather proof DB doesn't even have a cover over the breakers, the list is 5 pages long, what is going to be done about it, NOTHING, why because as most customers say, just fix it and make it right, he couldn't be bothered to pay for the investigation, pay for the repairs then have to try claim the money back, it is cheaper and less hassle just fixing it himself.

Unfortunately, what you are saying has a lot of truth in it.
All we can do is set an example and hopefully others will follow.
This is our bread and butter and the sooner we inject some form of legitimacy into it the better for all of us.

[ians]

I spent many years trying, member of the ECA, registered with every department as per requirements, the works, 22 years later, all I can say, what a waste of time.

Like my 2 years wasted in the defence force, year after year of 3 month camps, to be blown up in Magoos bar, what a waste of many years of my life.

Sorry to sound negative, but watching the news, another 5 billion rand of tax money pissed against the wall, don't you feel great waking up in the morning, battling to put food on the table because taxes and levies on petrol are getting so out of control, yet the SAA top brass still get huge salaries and bonuses. Just imagine if your company could apply to the government for 5 billion loan security so that you can keep up the liflestyle of the rich and famous no matter how far down the crapper your company is falling, knowing the government will just bail you out again.