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Thread: 220v Downlight DIY Installation

  1. #21
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    I've been putting a bit of thought into what might work as a DIY solution. The best answer I can think of is that the homeowner should involve the wireman right from the beginning. The home owner should run through what he or she plans to do and the wireman is involved in the planning, monitoring and the making off of the final connections.

    I'm sure not too many people will be thrilled at the idea, but it's a heck of a lot better than what's happening at the moment where homeowners go doing their own thing without any guidance or control whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    I've been putting a bit of thought into what might work as a DIY solution. The best answer I can think of is that the homeowner should involve the wireman right from the beginning. The home owner should run through what he or she plans to do and the wireman is involved in the planning, monitoring and the making off of the final connections.

    I'm sure not too many people will be thrilled at the idea, but it's a heck of a lot better than what's happening at the moment where homeowners go doing their own thing without any guidance or control whatsoever.
    Dave that sound a little bit like "we all get a chance to land the plane under the pilots indirect guidance". Doesn't work for me.
    It's about time that Joe Public learned that The Law is there to be respected and not and not interpreted to suit "his" requirements.
    I would like to place a piece here from a friend of mine in Cape Town, which deals with a slighter broader version of what we are discussing here.
    He compiled this article which is presently being published in a Cape Town Paper, I received it this morning.

    It is entitled your geyser is leaking so you call a plumber

    Your geyser is leaking so you call a plumber. The contractor arrives and, using his step-ladder, he climbs into the ceiling of your house to look for a fault. While he is standing on the ladder he touches your geyser and gets a shock. His ladder slips and he falls and is seriously injured, or even dies. Now you have a problem. What is your responsibility and where does it start?

    The incident must be reported to the Chief Inspector of the Department of Manpower and, in the event of a death, to the Police. The Chief Inspector will investigate the incident and, depending on his conclusion, you may find yourself in Court facing a prison sentence or fine of R100 000. With South African law you are responsible the moment you called the contractor. According to the Occupational Health and Safety Act No 85 of 1993 (“the OSH Act”), every employer shall provide and maintain, as far as is reasonably practical, a working environment that is safe and without risk to the health of his employees.

    You may argue that:
    1. your home is not a working environment;
    2. the contractor does not work for you but a plumbing company;
    3. his step-ladder was unsafe to use and that he did not use it correctly; and
    4. Your geyser had an electrical fault that you were unaware of.

    You are unfortunately guilty of all of the above.
    The moment that any work is performed on your premises it has become a work environment. It does not matter what work is performed – domestic, gardening, even changing the oil of your car. The OSH Act defines “work” as an employee or as a self-employed person and, for such purpose, an employee is defined to be at work during the time that he is in the course of his employment, and a self-employed person is deemed to be at work during such time as he devotes to work as a self-employed person. In simple terms, it means anybody who performs work.

    The OSH Act defines a “workplace” as any premises or place where a person performs work in the course of his employment. The contractor may be employed by a plumbing company but he will be performing work for you therefore, indirectly, he is your employee. His direct employer has duties to see that he is competent, trained and able to perform his duties in a safe manner and to ensure that he has the correct personal protective equipment and that his tools are in a good, safe working condition. You still have the responsibility to ensure that he has received all of that from his employer. You have the right to inspect all his tools and protective equipment before he starts working and you have the responsibility to make sure he uses his equipment correctly and in a safe manner. He should be able to provide you with a step-ladder safety check or prove to you that it is in a good, safe working condition.

    Lastly, you, as the user, are responsible for the electrical installation defined in the OSH Act as “any machinery, in or on any premises used for the transmission of electricity from point of contact to a point of consumption anywhere on the premises, including any article forming part of such an electrical installation, irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical circuit.” Unfortunately, the majority of South African homeowners or Lessors are under the impression that they need an electrical Certificate of Compliance only when they sell their property. This is true, but all users or Lessors must have a valid Certificate of Compliance for that installation and it must be accompanied by a Test Report in the format approved by the Chief Inspector. The Chief Inspector may, at any time, ask you to provide a valid Certificate of Compliance and not just at the time of an incident. The Certificate of Compliance must be obtained from an accredited person who has been registered by the Chief Inspector of the Department of Manpower in terms of the Regulations.

    The law requires that a visual inspection covering no less than 12 Aspects of the installation must be carried out as well as a series of 14 electrical tests. Not only does the Certificate of Compliance cover you in the event of an incident, your insurance company may ask you to produce one if your property suffers damage due to an electrical fault, or if you face a public liability law suit which, by the way, the plumber may bring against you.

    In South Africa we do not have a culture of suing each other for everything, but as the law gets stricter, we may soon see an increase in the number of law suits. Do not become one of the first to be sued. Make sure your premises are in a good, safe condition and that you have all the necessary Certificates.

    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

  3. #23
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    So when has a home owner become proficient in inspecting and insuring that the equipment a contractor is going to use is safe and in working order.
    Does this not bring to question then that the home owner therefor is not qualified, and therefor can not call a contractor to fix a problem in the home.
    So who is qualified to do this?

    An example, I am away over seas, and my 16 year old daughter calls the plumber to fix the leak, a situation as in the previous post occurs.
    She is then guilty of having called the plumber to correct the problem -

    mmmmmmm - Sounds like a catch 22 situation to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justloadit View Post
    So when has a home owner become proficient in inspecting and insuring that the equipment a contractor is going to use is safe and in working order.
    Does this not bring to question then that the home owner therefor is not qualified, and therefor can not call a contractor to fix a problem in the home.
    So who is qualified to do this?

    An example, I am away over seas, and my 16 year old daughter calls the plumber to fix the leak, a situation as in the previous post occurs.
    She is then guilty of having called the plumber to correct the problem -

    mmmmmmm - Sounds like a catch 22 situation to me.
    The person renting the place or the owner staying in the house is responsible for the installation

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    I look forward to that day, i wonder if it will happen in my life time?

  6. #26
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    The OSH Act defines a “workplace” as any premises or place where a person performs work in the course of his employment. The contractor may be employed by a plumbing company but he will be performing work for you therefore, indirectly, he is your employee.
    Oh dear - do- it-yourself lawyering seems to present much the same dangers as DIY electricianing and probably shouldn't be done without some level of oversight by professionals.

    Lee, it would seem your friend has stretched the employer/employee relationship beyond the breaking point of even the OSH Act (which requires supervision and control to deem an employer as an "employer" - see S2). No, in your quoted scenario, I humbly suggest the private homeowner has employed the services of a contractor, and it's the contractor that is the employer that has to pay attention to OSH Act related worker safety. The worst thing the homeowner could do is start supervising the contractor's employees

    Even if we look at COIDA, S89 mandator responsibility only starts kicking in when the contractor's client acts "in the course of or for the purposes of his business" - the private homeowner/occupier is off the hook.

    The issue of user/lessor responsibility for the electrical COC is fair comment, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    Oh dear - do- it-yourself lawyering seems to present much the same dangers as DIY electricianing and probably shouldn't be done without some level of oversight by professionals.

    Lee, it would seem your friend has stretched the employer/employee relationship beyond the breaking point of even the OSH Act (which requires supervision and control to deem an employer as an "employer" - see S2). No, in your quoted scenario, I humbly suggest the private homeowner has employed the services of a contractor, and it's the contractor that is the employer that has to pay attention to OSH Act related worker safety. The worst thing the homeowner could do is start supervising the contractor's employees

    Even if we look at COIDA, S89 mandator responsibility only starts kicking in when the contractor's client acts "in the course of or for the purposes of his business" - the private homeowner/occupier is off the hook.

    The issue of user/lessor responsibility for the electrical COC is fair comment, though.
    Thank you Dave. Actually I was re reading the transcript last night again and there are a few other issues that I have a problem with as well.
    I may have been a tad hasty in posting it but on the other hand it may make for an interesting discussion further down the line.
    Would it make a difference if there were only the plumber, or electrician, working alone as I think that is what he is referring to?
    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    Would it make a difference if there were only the plumber, or electrician, working alone as I think that is what he is referring to?
    The position of the sole proprietor contractor working on his/her own is an interesting one. I don't see it making a difference when it comes to OSH Act issues (i.r.o. private homeowner liability), but the fact that this particular individual doesn't have access to COIDA cover for him/herself does create an unfortunate hole in having a third party liable for paying the medical bills etc.

    I've always understood that this person is pretty much on their own, have to look after themselves and should probably look for insurance cover...
    But there's a few threads on TFSA already that seem to indicate that when it comes to insurance, claim time doesn't always work out as expected.

    Maybe a good argument against contractors trading as a sole proprietor...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    I may have been a tad hasty in posting it but on the other hand it may make for an interesting discussion further down the line.
    Probably as well you did post it. Sometimes it's the best way to clear up issues and improve everyone's understanding.
    With any luck the excercise might save your friend from future blushes too.

  9. #29
    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    I guess it all boils down to point of view & who has the highest paid lawyer
    I just did some work at a large cable manufacturing plant. I had to submit all the required safety reports of my equipment(to relieve them of liabillity should the above scenario have taken place?). The same happened at a large motor dealership. I am about to do the same at another branch of the same dealership. Before I may commence work I must submit inspection reports for all tools which could cause injury. I was even asked about first aid qualification. During the induction I was told to submit all these documents for inspection prior to entering the work area.
    I wonder now homeowners paint their wooden ladders for protection against bettles & the weather. If a painted ladder were to break, would the insurance claim "no liabillity" because the wood should have been varnished in order to see any defects that may have developed over time?

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    If you really want to get into it, you need to start taking about things like, KBC Health and safety training for each staff member, medical clearance , induction, hot permits, machine training, etc, etc, it just goes on and on. So were do we draw the line with the one man operation, how far does he actually have to go to be cleared to work on any property. Stuff like putting up barriers when an electrician is working on an installation or carrying out tests on a domestic installation should all be taken into consideration, so how far do you want to go, thats the big question, you might know the electrical standards off the top of your head, but how many people take other things like barriers into consideration, how many electricians even own a lock out device, never mind a barrier to keep people out of the work or test zone? Simple things like putting putting a protective barrier between your equipment and the customers antique table, honestly how many of you take these precautions? I just laugh when i read these threads and shake my head, the reality is i work hands on on a daily basis, i dont sit in an office and send staff out to work, so i know what is going on out there and the type of workmanship i see on a daily basis, it scary.

    It only makes sense doing all this stuff if "everyone" is forced to do it, and there are people going around enforcing the law, ie some form of prosecution for offenders, otherwise it is just another waste of tax payers money creating all the rules and regulations, i suppose it does create employment. Ever now and again, like maybe every 5 - 10 years there are people who arrive on site with clipboards, looking all smart, tick off a few things,make a noise and off they go into the sunset.

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