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Thread: Minimum force being used.....the more things change the more they stay the same...

  1. #11
    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    There is no excuse. They are supposed to protect all citizens, even if those citizens become unruly. The only term that rolls around in my head when looking at that footage is this: "It was like shooting fish in a barrel"
    In a perfect and civilised society this statement would be true. Unfortunately and sadly, these events have once more confirmed that we live in a 3rd world country. It has also put our country in such a bad light in the international forum. It is really sad that conflict have to be settled with violence.

    I also agree to police incompetence in that the training provided to new police recruits is not what it used to be. The quality of leadership is also not what it used to be. There is however two sides to the coin. Until you have faced a mindless, barbaric mob out to kill and destroy everything in their path, it is hard to put yourself in their position.

    Maybe the mine management was also to blame in how they conducted negotiations and HR in general. The strikers definitely had an agenda, but I will reserve judgement until all the facts have been investigated.
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    In a perfect and civilised society this statement would be true. Unfortunately and sadly, these events have once more confirmed that we live in a 3rd world country. It has also put our country in such a bad light in the international forum. It is really sad that conflict have to be settled with violence.

    I also agree to police incompetence in that the training provided to new police recruits is not what it used to be. The quality of leadership is also not what it used to be. There is however two sides to the coin. Until you have faced a mindless, barbaric mob out to kill and destroy everything in their path, it is hard to put yourself in their position.

    Maybe the mine management was also to blame in how they conducted negotiations and HR in general. The strikers definitely had an agenda, but I will reserve judgement until all the facts have been investigated.
    I think you are on point... However the law is that the Sate must PROTECT NOT TAKE LIFE unless this is unavoidable .. even if the swine involved is a serial killer.
    So the State is obliged, with its considerable resources, that we pay for, to gear itself up for such situations --- including situations of extreme violence.
    As I have posted just the fact that the police had divested themselves of rubber bullets means that the whole operation was fatally flawed -- from the moment they arrived.
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

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    @Nickolai Naydenov : ag sorry man, now I see why you are so upset...ok I'll quickly fix it for you. My opinion on the matter must have been a tad unclear. Those trigger happy chappies suffer from a severe case of:

    ...wait for it...

    ...ta da...

    I - N - C - O - M - P - E - T -E - N - C - E

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    Email problem vieome's Avatar
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    <rant>
    <conspiracy>
    The police and rioters mere pawns in the game of power. When they start calling for your head take off their heads.

    But the end result, the true genius of the plan, is the fear. Fear becomes the ultimate tool of corrupt third world governments. In this society where people are willing to protest for anything, what better way to show people before an election that they can march against a picture of the spear, but they can not march against the spear.
    </conspiracy>
    </rant>

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    Email problem vieome's Avatar
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    The police simply took a few extra dolphin kicks.

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    @vieome 10/10

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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    The state is also obliged to protect its citizens and their homes. Reality is that it is failing in each and every obligation it has. I am not 100% certain, but the basics are to protect, to educate and to rule (please help me out here), but none of this is happening. That is why we have a duplicate service for each and every service or function of state.
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

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    Quote Originally Posted by vieome View Post
    The police simply took a few extra dolphin kicks.
    Lol ,, lol , ,with deadly results ......
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    @Nickolai Naydenov : ag sorry man, now I see why you are so upset...ok I'll quickly fix it for you. My opinion on the matter must have been a tad unclear. Those trigger happy chappies suffer from a severe case of:

    ...wait for it...

    ...ta da...

    I - N - C - O - M - P - E - T -E - N - C - E
    i agree . on account of the incompetence of leadership .. right from the top.
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

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    Guys --- when you watch the video clip this is what is also striking ----
    1. a tear gas canister is thrown at the group;
    2. this was obviously done to get them to move;
    3. they did move -- and this should have been anticipated;
    4. they move/charge in the direction of a group of police;
    5. however it is a group of police to the right of the police being charged that start shooting;
    6. the rioters are immediately mowed down by automatic gun fire and they fall like skittles;
    7. some police officers start shouting "cease fire, cease fire";
    8. the call goes unheeded, as some police officers next to a vehicle NOT UNDER ANY THREAT WHATSOEVER continue to fire at the rioters now on the ground!!!????

    A. On these facts it is clear that there was no predetermined plan, other than that if the rioters moved in the direction of the police, in reaction to the teargas, IMMEDIATE DEADLY FORCE WOULD BE USED TO KILL THEM.

    B. No rubber bullets were used - -which should have been the first option .. NO QUESTION WHATSOEVER. The fact that this was not the option speaks volumes.

    C. Of extreme significance is the fact that there was no IMMEDIATE response to the "Cease FIRE" call. This IS A VERY BAD indicator. It is indicative of a badly trained, very jumpy force ... AND proves that there was no plan in place as to the "command regime in combat".

    D. It was also notable that some police officers nearer to the charge did not fire at all, while others further away did. This makes nonsense of any police officer being in a situation of "HAVING TO KILL", because if this was so, the ones in the front would also fire.
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

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