We are so fickle and cowardly

**bjsteyn** · 17-Aug-12, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisNG53

bjsteyn - -you need to distinguish transgressions on the field which most sports have. There are stipulated penalties applied by the refs. Disqualification is not usually such a penalty.
Cheating is quite a different matter. It is when I seek to win by deceptively breaching a fundamental rule. Just think it through -- using an illegal ball in golf ... pumpinmg myself up with steroids for weightlifting ... taking 10 extra kicks when i turn in the breast stroke .....

Point noted and agreed with. :-)

**Just Gone** · 17-Aug-12, 03:15 PM

copied it for maximum plagiarization

But isnt that wrong ........... and just a bit unethical ................but maybe not as bad as giving an extra kick here or there .....

**ChrisNG53** · 17-Aug-12, 03:29 PM

Guys, just to close this conversation.

I think it was useful. Regrettably the World is full of convenient untruths being propagated and inconvenient truth being suppressed. This does cause all of us all kinds of problems in one way or the other. It follows that if we have a culture of accepting, condoning, conniving and colluding at what is not true, what is wrong ... we are supporting, giving life and sustenance to this culture.

A child will start by stealing just one sweet. If you condone it, don't be surprised when later on you find that he becomes a hoodlum. As Dave has said, there are no degrees of wrongness. As regards Cameron you need only imagine him being questioned by his grandchild about his medal. The child will ask if he cheated. If he denies this it will start asking how many kicks would have been cheating in that annoying way that children have, going from 3 -4-5-6-7 ....? Check mate!

I did not post this thread because it gives me any pleasure. It actually makes me extremely sad that a brilliant athlete will now have to live with this. My hope and prayer is that he is there at the next Olympics and does it right this time. He certainly deserves it. That would be just fantastic.

I have posted the thread because in the afternoon years of my life I seek ways to contribute the the betterment of society based on my own long life. That is why I have written a book. A central theme of the book is the issue of inconvenient truths being suppressed .... etc. I have concluded that it a major reason why the World is so buggered up. And it is not the first time I have taken society to task on this issue. For instance see --- http://coginito.blogspot.com/2011/05...-even-bad.html

South Africa is a terribly anomic society. On that much we have agreed in a previous thread. Anomie is fueled by a culture of playing fast and lose with what is right and what is wrong.

Thank you for your contributions. Whatever our differences, I am sure everyone did learn something from the conversation.

**ChrisNG53** · 17-Aug-12, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Justloadit

It must also be noted that there is different ways in applying an action for a rule, as in the case of a rule applied to a sport (swimming - you may be disqualified if you do more than one dolphin kick),and an action for a law as applied in a speed limit (Traffic Offence - you will be fined for transgression).

Rule, and I stand to be corrected here, is a process you follow, and may be deviated
Law, is an absolute and has no room to deviate.

True.

**Blurock** · 17-Aug-12, 04:30 PM

Thanks Chris and everyone who contributed. I enjoyed the sparring. This was a good debate.

**ChrisNG53** · 17-Aug-12, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by tec0

Right all analogies aside, clearly by drawing a comparison between sports and so on will not solve this. Let's call a duck a duck and leave it at that for the time being. I still maintain ignorance as I am really not involved with the sport nor do I care enough to spend the time to research the rules.

Fact is all arguments have multiple aspects and each will conclude accordingly. My view is that you cannot label people base ruling and strategy; there is always a hidden hand at work. As for the ruling to be simple and easy to make. I agree that "if" it was the case than why not ask questions.

But in my opinion, keep those who are accountable, accountable for their actions first. Then move on to the next and investigate why so many athletes did what they did. Why wasn't it picked up before this event? Why were the rules so lax? Explore the history and then the truth will reveal itself.

Now I personally am not committed to this as it is not as important then let's say getting your tax done on time. Getting your washing machine fixed and so on. I say this not as a sheep. I say this because regardless of what the outcome will be, it will have no effect on my life. Unless one feels otherwise and if that is the case I wish you the best of luck.

But always remember that we are human and with it comes many flaws and many more half truths. Accepting this fact doesn’t make you a sheep just a very ordinary human-being.

teco -- I have to insist, with respect, that you are indulging in a cop out. Remember what Edmund Burke said that 'for evil to triumph it requires only that good men say/do nothing". When we have ALL THE FACT and are able to make a judgement call on what is wrong it is a cop out to choose to say "well, you know what, I am only human".

**ChrisNG53** · 17-Aug-12, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by adrianh

@Kevin - Google

Judge Chris N Greenland

You'll see that Chris is for real!

I have just looked in the mirrore, checked my ID and am able to confirm that .... lol.

**ChrisNG53** · 17-Aug-12, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Blurock

Thanks Chris and everyone who contributed. I enjoyed the sparring. This was a good debate.

Ditto ...

**tec0** · 17-Aug-12, 11:30 PM

Cop out?

Honestly? I expected a bit more… The argument was engineered. I mean no disrespect but you knew that your case and point was easily defendable. I have seen this strategy before in many conspiracies thus it is hardly new.

It is always masked as the greater good against an infantine evil. However you disarmed every opinion with your "FACTS" knowing that any argument against them would be lost.

Sadly a second truth eluded you… Because you took it upon yourself to dismiss any and all arguments against your claim you stopped people for thinking for themselves and you robbed them of hope. A hero can come from almost any walk of life, all of them made their mistakes.

If you are only interested in the mistakes then you will find them. Because that is all that matter to you. Thus you enabled evil to take away hope…

sorry for the harshness…

**ChrisNG53** · 18-Aug-12, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by tec0

Cop out?

Honestly? I expected a bit more… The argument was engineered. I mean no disrespect but you knew that your case and point was easily defendable. I have seen this strategy before in many conspiracies thus it is hardly new.

It is always masked as the greater good against an infantine evil. However you disarmed every opinion with your "FACTS" knowing that any argument against them would be lost.

Sadly a second truth eluded you… Because you took it upon yourself to dismiss any and all arguments against your claim you stopped people for thinking for themselves and you robbed them of hope. A hero can come from almost any walk of life, all of them made their mistakes.

If you are only interested in the mistakes then you will find them. Because that is all that matter to you. Thus you enabled evil to take away hope…

sorry for the harshness…

Whatever else, you certainly have "bottle" as the English say. Full marks, in my book, for that robust reposte. I unashamedly confess to be very interested in the "evil" of the pandemic tolerance of convenient lies. If it is an obsession I will expect a "Gold Medal' when my time comes.