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Thread: children and maintenance

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    Grandparents, both maternal and paternal can be held liable for maintenance. And vice versa
    please explain this...are you saying that if my child from my ex which i pay maintenance...falls pregnant and has a baby i am liable for my granchilds maintenance.

    and what happens if you instuct the child to have an abortion and they decide to go ahead with the birth...knowing that the child cannot support the baby...the father was a one night...wants nothing to do with the expenses of the child...but is quite happy to hang around to get his his leg over when it suits him...and is interested to see what is happening with the baby...neither are employed...live at home...no transport...too imature to even support herself...mother buy them cigarettes...boozes...pays for the petrol and booze on the night out clubbing...yes this is while she is pregnant...so you wonder who is the irresponsible one...the mother...the daughter or both.

  2. #12
    Diamond Member Vanash Naick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    I got a question Vanash; If the parents leave the children "especially between the ages of 0 to 7 years of age" in the care of the grandparents and expect them "the grandparents" to buy clothing, feed them, take them to the doctor, take them to school, clean them and give them a place to sleep. They have NO RIGHT OR SAY IN THE CHILD'S LIFE? Do I understand this correctly?

    If so can said grandparents then SUE the parents for ALL the moneys spend? In this case it is more then R40200! to date.
    Tec0, I understand where you coming from! In principal and from a moral perspective, parents who leave their minor children with the Grand parents, are saving a lot(expenses saved). They don’t have to contend with the cost of a crèche which ranges between R1000 to R4000 per month, they have the added reassurance of the safety and well being of their minor children; recently a 4 year old child at a crèche was raped; the grand parents feed and take care of the minor child so they also vest time and effort in this process. They don’t mind, because they love their grandchildren. From a perspective of fairness, the child’s parents should compensate the grand parents.
    1.Legally, the parents of a minor child can delegate parental responsibility to a third party. The mere fact that they entrust someone with their child’s care is sufficient evidence of having delegated parental responsibility to a third party. It is seen as consent. Provided that both parents consent to a third party taking care of a child, it’s perfectly legal. It does not have to be a formal a written agreement but the Childrens Act 38 of 2005 endorses a formal written agreement. The following sections are relevant here:
    “22. Parental responsibilities and rights agreements
    (1) Subject to subsection (2), the mother of a child or other person who has parental
    responsibilities and rights in respect of a child may enter into an agreement providing for the acquisition of such parental responsibilities and rights in respect of the child as are set out in the agreement, with -
    (a) the biological father of a child who does not have parental responsibilities and
    rights in respect of the child in terms of either section 20 or 21 or by court order; or
    (b) any other person having an interest in the care, well-being and development of the
    child.
    (2) The mother or other person who has parental responsibilities and rights in respect of a child may only confer by agreement upon a person contemplated in subsection (1) those parental responsibilities and rights which she or that other person has in respect of the child at the time of the conclusion of such an agreement.
    (3) A parental responsibilities and rights agreement must be in the prescribed format and contain the prescribed particulars.”

    “32. Care of child by person not holding parental responsibilities and rights

    (1) A person who has no parental responsibilities and rights in respect of a child but who voluntarily cares for the child either indefinitely, temporarily or partially, including a care-giver who otherwise has no parental responsibilities and rights in respect of a child, must, whilst the child is in that person’s care -

    (a) safeguard the child’s health, well-being and development; and

    (b) protect the child from maltreatment, abuse, neglect, degradation, discrimination,
    exploitation, and any other physical, emotional or mental harm or hazards.”

    “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.” Karl Marx
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  4. #13
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    Grandparents, both maternal and paternal can be held liable for maintenance. And vice versa
    I was told this but find it difficult to believe. Let’s take a man age 30 his parents has no control over him as he is an adult and yet if he crosses the line and a child is born. Regardless of this fact that he is in control of his own life, his parents can be held liable for maintenance?

    Do I understand this correctly?
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    the way i understand it...if you are burdened with having to look after your grand children because yor kids are too irresponsible to look after their own kids...you could sue the mother/father or both for maintenance.

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    Gold Member Phil Cooper's Avatar
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    You have to pay maintenance until the child commences earning a living

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    I thought if you turned 21 your parents can no longer be held liable for your actions. If not then I see some serious troubles a head. The responsible thing to do would be to "Sterilize" your offspring to minimize any long term financial loss.

    No grandchildren no maintenance would be my argument?
    Last edited by tec0; 27-Jun-12 at 01:14 PM.
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  9. #17
    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    I have been through this mill as well.
    In my experience, the child is the last thought on everybody's mind, including the courts.

    Its not 21 or the childs ability to earn that will determine the end of the obligation. Its all in the numbers of who earns what and who can afford what.
    Usually the earning part starts with what size attorney you can buy, which is where the problem starts and where law deviates from morals and practical solutions.
    The inclusion of grandparents into the equation is one of these issues which just creates further antagonism and at the end of the day the child is the loser.
    In my case, my mother, does not see her Grandchildren at all and has excluded them from her life completely, blaming their mother for raping the system and scared to get involved at all, in case the legal system threatens her again.
    The children themselves now well into their 20's do not have any family values, have strange attitudes to people and life in general.
    Thats, as far as I can determine, thanks to the legal system, the courts and a mother who used them to her full advantage.

    I believe there should be a global number attached to child maintenance. Say R500 a month for everybody.
    So if you have a child and you get divorced or separated - the parent with the child gets an automatic R500 a month from the other.
    No further legal battles allowed - no further drawn out scenarios in court or council.
    It kicks in as an understanding right at the start when pregnancy in determined.
    When divorce happens, salaries gets garnished via that court procedure and thats that - no sheriffs knocking on doors at midnight or arriving at work with summons's and other legal documents designed to threaten and create stress and hate. No endless legal arguments and attempts to extract what you do not have.
    All other amounts paid will be as a result of parents wanting to help the children directly, not payments to ex'es to keep up lavish life styles.
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  10. #18
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    yip the last court case with my ex over maintenance...i handed over R10 000 to her and she paid it straight over to her attorney for fees and services and that was for an out of court settlement...i do believe her attorney...advised her she was wasting her time and he would end up suing her for his fees if it dragged out for much longer...because you can only squeeze so much water out of a rock...so who benefits...not the kids.

    and i agree with the set figue...like tax...it should be a figue determined by your salary...on both sides.

  11. #19
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    Hello Murdock,
    You have discussed a very important issue that most of the males face nowadays in South Africa. The wife forces her present husband to pay everything for her and for her kids of her ex-husband. As soon as the kids left the high school, the wife leaves the husband and takes everything from home and property. Still, after leaving the husband and giving divorce, the wife tactfully make her husband pay for all as he mentioned the same in the divorce. This is totally unlawful. Talking about the divorce part, you have mentioned that the husband has to pay the maintenance as long the kids become self-supportive. But, if they become self-supportive at the age of 30? It is a long way to go dear! Keeping aside the divorce matters, you can claim a child custody case in the court against the women to pay the maintenance equally until the kids become self-sufficient. Even, you can claim a maintenance case against the woman. I will suggest you hire a professional lawyer who will understand your problem and will give the suitable solution.

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