The case against Christian public holidays!

[adrianh]

I think that the holidays are terrible. It just messes with productivity. I think that everybody should stop moaning and get to work. They can drink beer over the weekends.

I also cannot for the life of me understand why people get so hung up about religion. To me it is simply a waste of mental energy to think that some deity actually bothers with us, the monkeys swinging around the concrete jungle. And to think that we are doing all this so that we can sit around and play harp for all eternity, I don't enjoy harp music for one and I don't like people who are unable to take responsibility for their own lives.

Vanash, dude, I can't read all the stuff you wrote. My life is simply to short to get into debates whether one fairytale is better than another. Rather give me the real world, a world where I know that if I walk across a highway I will get killed, not because its God's will but because I'm stupid, a world where $h1t just happens, good $h1 and bad $h1t, a world where I understnad that humans are simply animals that are evolving and not some cockamamy special being that is the greatest achievement in all the universe. I'll tell you this much, if the human, with all its biological and mental design flaws is the greatest creation in the universe, then I don't give the universe much credit for creativity. Our eyes have blindspots and are easily fooled, we walk around with little bits that serve no purpose (the appendix), our brains are not wired up properly, sharing the same mechanisms for breathing and eating isn't too bright..we tend to choke quite easily and we can't quite control our emotions and our drives. To top it all off we are sometimes born with horrific birth defects.

Am I cynical, for sure, just as I don't believe that Alice in Wonderland went down a rabbit hole or that I've got little green gnomes with red hats living at the bottom of my garden, so don't I believe in fairytales that have been causing mass hysteria for many many years.

[Citizen X]

I think that the holidays are terrible. It just messes with productivity. I think that everybody should stop moaning and get to work. They can drink beer over the weekends.

Vanash, dude, I can't read all the stuff you wrote. My life is simply to short to get into debates whether one fairytale is better than another. Rather give me the real world, a world where I know that if I walk across a highway I will get killed, not because its God's will but because I'm stupid, a world where $h1t just happens, good $h1 and bad $h1t, a world where I understnad that humans are simply animals that are evolving and not some cockamamy special being that is the greatest achievement in all the universe. I'll tell you this much, if the human, with all its biological and mental design flaws is the greatest creation in the universe, then I don't give the universe much credit for creativity. Our eyes have blindspots and are easily fooled, we walk around with little bits that serve no purpose (the appendix), our brains are not wired up properly, sharing the same mechanisms for breathing and eating isn't too bright..we tend to choke quite easily and we can't quite control our emotions and our drives. To top it all off we are sometimes born with horrific birth defects.

Am I cynical, for sure, just as I don't believe that Alice in Wonderland went down a rabbit hole or that I've got little green gnomes with red hats living at the bottom of my garden, so don't I believe in fairytales that have been causing mass hysteria for many many years.

Adrian, what I’ve presented does far, notwithstanding the fact that it might make for onerous reading, is a mere footnote on the issue of the validity of Christmas and Easter as Christian holy days. This is a matter of South African public interest as the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities (CRL) are inviting arguments or objections. This gives me an opportunity that I never anticipated that I would justifiably have on TFSA i.e. engage in religious debate.1. I see so much ignorance in the Church in general and in particular in many Pastors and Bible school graduates. I never accept any opinion on Christianity unless it can be reconciled with the Bible itself;
2. To the untrained eye Karl Marx and religion have nothing in common, on the contrary. Karl Marx was against religion and so was Jesus!
3. I admire karl marx in so far as he could get straight to the point. Let me resolve as follows, in the LLB curriculum we have legal philosophy to contend with. Every psychology student has philosophy to contend with, the same applies to all BA students and students studying actual philosophy. Learning about when Plato was born and what he said will only get you so far in becoming an actual effective philosopher. In his thesis on Feuerbach, Karl Marx said that the philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways. He asserted that the point however is to change the world. You see there’s a difference between studying philosophy and philosophizing. What I’m doing right now shows that difference, I’m philosophizing as opposed to telling you when Plato was born, what he ate and what he said! The context, quite simple really, we cannot go on in ignorance that the Church has created. We need to change things to accomplish the worship in ‘spirit and truth that Jesus advocated. There’s no Biblical truth that Christmas and Easter are Biblical holy days, they simply not and will never be!
4. Jesus demonstrated that religion literally kills! The religious law is perfect but man is not perfect and therefore can never abide by the law. Allow me to illustrate: Do you want to preach from Mount Sinai or Mount Zion? I prefer the latter!
5. There’s a difference between the 10 commandments which can rightfully be seen as Moses ministry of death and Jesus ministry of life;
6. The law, the 10 commandments the religion demands perfection but will never lift a finger to help you!
7. The religion, the 10 commandments actually kill! When God gave Moses the law on Mount Sinai on the first Pentecost, some 50 days from the Passover when the Lord delivered the Israelites from Egypt, 3000 people died(Exodus 32: 28); now in stark contrast when you preach from Mount Zion people live, they don’t die! In Act 32: 28 on the day of Pentecost when Peter stood up to preach 3000 people were saved! This is actual forensic evidence of the resurrection. If you ever witnesses the wrath of an angry mob as I have witnessed in our informal settlement you will understand immediately!. In one incident, 2 residents of our informal settlement decided to steal the illegal electricity connection copper wire. The mob caught them and were not too please with their illegal electrical connections being stolen. These 2 gentleman had a bakkie. They had a simple choice, get out of the bakkie and get beaten, kicked and stoned to death or stay in the bakkie while the angry mob doused the bakkie with petrol and burned them to death, they chose to be burned to death. You see, we all can say a great many things but when faced with some 100 angry violent people, your attitude will change! This is actually what happened to Peter, he was faced with an angry mob, he feared for his life and he chose to deny the Christ 3 times, even swearing in expressing that he definitely was not with the Christ and in fact he dide not even know the Christ, yet a few days later, he’s preached without fear for his life. On the day of Pentecost, he couldn’t care the less whether he was attacked or not. You see something important happened between the time when he denied Jesus purely because he was terrified of the angry mob and the time when he preached boldly on the day of Pentecost. That something is that Jesus was raised from the dead and Peter saw him. That made the difference. It’s noteworthy that instead of Jesus stipulating some stringent punishment for his discipline denying him, he done the opposite, the very first thing that Jesus done when he was resurrected was to tell those women who first seen him to inform Peter of his resurrection! He in fact told Peter that the Church will be built on him…..
8. Jesus told the most religious priest that he encountered, ‘The prostitutes will get to heaven before you!”

“But I don't wanna rule you!
I don't wanna fool you
I don't wanna school you
Things you - you might never know about!”

[adrianh]

Nah, too much reading for me, I'm unable to mix fairytales and reality...I'll just stick to reality....

[tec0]

Then take it all away and dump it. Dear me how sad the world has become, that every person wants it their way and only their way. I just hope 2012 hits home and planet earth goes the way of the dodo.

Fact is this is the future of our children 15 hours a day living working having no life at all that is if they can find work that is. Screw it… If you don’t give people something to live for they have every reason not to respect life and every reason just to take life.

That is the world you are breeding right now… And that will be the world you will leave behind… just a mess of pain anger?


me, I just hope I don’t live long enough to see.

As I said in my first port this is not about religion it is about domination.

[adrianh]

Well, I live because I enjoy it. I don't need holidays to get away from my life and I don't need to live to go on holiday. If people don't enjoy their lives then they are most welcome to call it quits and hit the road. There are way too many people on the planet already. At least I don't live in a brain dominated by fairytales.

[tec0]

Well, I live because I enjoy it. I don't need holidays to get away from my life and I don't need to live to go on holiday. If people don't enjoy their lives then they are most welcome to call it quits and hit the road. There are way too many people on the planet already. At least I don't live in a brain dominated by fairytales.

Dismissing something before the fact is like messing with the cookies before you put them in the oven. You don’t know the answer. I don’t know the answer and science is drawing a big blank on that particular subject. So really who knows?

For me a "holiday" is about spending time with the people you love because the day was made available to you. In a world that is pressed for time, this I think still holds meaning. That is my case and point. If want to take that freedom away then that is your problem.

Just don’t make it mine

[adrianh]

Aye well, I am free to dismiss whatever I want, just as others are free to believe whaterver they want. What is wrong with my view, its my choice, I don't believe that Alice went down the rabbit hole.

You see, I spend every day with the people I love, I don't need a special occasion to do so. I make the most of all the holidays, you'll be amazed how much beer you can drink over Christmas.

[Blurock]

I do not understand why we should tamper with Christian holidays such as Easter and Christmas. These days are celebrated all over the world in Christian countries. According to sensus stats the majority of South Africans are Christians. Or is this tampering by the non-Christians?

Why not get rid of other days that nobody even knows what and why we are celebrating it. The 16th of December is such a day where only a handful of Voortrekkers committed to an oath. I have respect for that and support their observance of the day, but the rest of our population have no understanding of this.

It does not matter to me whether Christmas is celebrated at the wrong time of the year. Just as it does not matter whether observing the Sabbath is on Saturday or Sunday. Let's be practical. God created the world in six days and on the seventh day he rested. He did not say which day it was.

That is the problem I have with churches. They want to impose their teachings and their own form of religion on us. Don't try to be clever and analyse or institutionalise everything. The Bible shows us that God used simple people to spread his Word. All we need to do is follow the Word of God.

[Blurock]

I reckon religious holidays should be allowed - to a point.

Christian holidays are actually only 2 - Good Friday and Christmas day.

Maybe the Christians can observe theirs, Muslims theirs, etc - up to a set number per year (I believe Jewish Holidays can total 8 - or more - which I think is unreasonable)?

Then, the Jews, Muslims (and others) will work on Christmas and Easter, covering the Christian Holidays, the Christians and Muslims cover the Jews, etc.

Then maybe SA won't close down from 16th December to early Jan every year, costing the economy a fortune!

The corporate world already provide for compassionate leave so that people from different religions can observe their holy days. Ascension day was taken away some time ago, but Christians still have the opportunity to apply for leave if they wish. Jews, Muslims and Hindus are allowed to take 2 days leave p.a. for religious purposes.

With regard to SA closing down from the 16th of December, that has to be addressed to the unions, not by taking away the holidays. Unfortunately (fortunately for some) summer is seen as holiday time. Europe is far worse and close down for 6 weeks!

[adrianh]

@Blurock - you make a lot of sense.