12V fitting with 220V lamps

[AndyD]

As for double insulated 12V downlight frames, where on earth does that idea come from? If a 12V set is bought that comes with double insulated transformers, yes, the set would be double insulated because of the transformer insulation. Replace/remove the double insulated transformer and you lose the classification.

That's why I said 'supposedly', as soon as the SLEV transformer is removed they are no longer ClassI.

The whole MR16 and GU10 configuration was ill thought out from the start. Firstly the lamps ought to have been different sizes or have a key moulded into them to prevent them from being used in the wrong fittings. Secondly the MR16 has the thin pins but is drawing 20 times the current that the same wattage GU10 lamp draws yet the GU has a far more substantial bayonette type fitting. Consequantly the MR16 is far more prone to failures of the ceramic lamp holder.

[Leecatt]

[QUOTE

As for double insulated 12V downlight frames, where on earth does that idea come from? If a 12V set is bought that comes with double insulated transformers, yes, the set would be double insulated because of the transformer insulation. Replace/remove the double insulated transformer and you lose the classification.

Or can someone please explain to me where the "double insulation" is when you have a metal ring with a spring on it?[/QUOTE]

I have seen an adapter, which I don't like, that houses a shrouded connection block and a connector for an earth connection which also connects it own metal parts to the earth. This then inserts into the 12volt holder, loosely. I keep failing them and am not sure if they are legal.



This one with also has a method of attaching the 12volt holder via the springs



Are these legal?

[AndyD]

I'd have to say I think the top one is probably legal. I don't have a problem with the earth continuity via the screw you highlighted. As far as strain relief goes it looks like the connector top shroud provides at least some, strain relief on the lampholder side is usually provided by the internal crimp connection which has two crimped parts, one on the wire and one on the insulation (if you look closely at the lug on the earth you can see the type of crimp I'm talking about). The arrangement in the bottom photo looks a little dicey to me, I'm not convinced that the mechanical connection via the springs would provide good enough earth continuity onto the ring itself. To be honest, if they had SABSapproval stamped on them I'd probably give them both a pass.

[Sparks]

The top one is 12volt & the bottom one is 220volt. My concern with both is the too short, too thin heat-resistant wire on the lampholder.

[Leecatt]

The top one is 12volt & the bottom one is 220volt. My concern with both is the too short, too thin heat-resistant wire on the lampholder.

Although the top one uses a 12 volt lamp holder it is sold as a 220 volt fitting. Interesting point about the short wire.

[AndyD]

Yeah the wiring hi temp wiring and sleeve is a little on the short side. All these types of items are in a gray area as far as the regs are concerned, I guess you've just got to make a decision based on the spirit of the regs, general safety and any experience you may have of the specific item. I doubt on these kind of things there will ever be agreement across the board. For example if I knew an item has been installed and working without any signs of deterioration for a long period of time and it came as an SABS approved item then this would go some way toward allowing it a pass in my opinion. On the other hand if I have seen the same item elsewhere and it had shown rapid deterioration due to heat or had been problematic in some other way then I would be considerable more likely to take a stand based on past evidence and fail it.

[Leecatt]

I have written to Bright Star lighting and asked for 5 SABS certificates relating to 5 different fittings. They have only sent me one certificate back which is for the type we suspected to be legal, the one that is all one piece DL 009. One can now only assume that the rest do not come with certificates?
I have re written the email asking again for the certificates and if anything changes I will post here.
Below is a picture of the legal light

[AndyD]

Just out of interest does that light fit through the hole in the ceiling in it's fully assembled state? Does the black connection enclosure on the top interfere with the spring clips when you insert or remove it?

[Leecatt]

Just out of interest does that light fit through the hole in the ceiling in it's fully assembled state? Does the black connection enclosure on the top interfere with the spring clips when you insert or remove it?

Yes it fits through the hole as is and the spring clips as well, no problems.
The gent at Bright Star wrote back and told me that the NRCS Certificate for the DL 009 also covers all his other downlighters. Sounds odd to me??

[AndyD]

I'm not buying that. Any certification should have all the specific product model numbers listed on it. It's remotely possible that NRCS might issue blanket certification of product line if the individual products all have individual certification by another recognised certifying body such as ISO, EN or IEC. I'm not sure to be honest but if this were the case the original certification surely should be produced on request, not the blanket acceptance by NRCS.