SANS 10142 October pre 1992

[Jerrad]

I have just again re-tested an installation that was tested a month before. The installation is done before 1992 and the previous electrician excuses is "reasonably safe" and "is not covered pre-1992"! Why test the installation then? It is of my opinion that it is bull s..t that you can hide behind the fact of an installation being done before 1992 and "reasonably safe". Sorry guys we contractors need to take pride and stand for good practice, safety & quality installations...... How can leave a house with a fuse board, earthing issues, open wiring and say you have tested & found all in order, i will not stay in an house with such a useless COC issued or maybe i am taking it too far?

[Jacechop]

8.6.3 l in the case of installations that existed before...and is reasonably safe.

I'm sure you refer to this. Well a-j (exception being k) needs to be in order. I point out 'h' circuits, fuses.... Marked or labelled..

Either you have ulterior motives and want to point out ever fault for the extra bucks or the other dude genuinely has no idea on how to test an installation and/or is still reading from sabs 0142.. :?

I'm a firm believer in safe while used correctly..

Just my view.

[Jerrad]

It brings me back to the question, what is reasonably safe? As an accredited person ,taking the responsibility of testing and certifying an installation-how will you answer when asked in a court after a house that you tested has partly burnt down and a child has lost its life" what measures did you take as the accredited person to make sure the installation was safe? I am not prepared to leave an installation with unsafe electrical apparatus and cover it with reasonably safe, its not worth the risk. I will rather leave it to the the guys that are prepared to take the risk to make " a quick buck"

[Sparks]

What 8.6.3.1 means is that that speciffic section of the installation(original) is not required to comply with ALL of the standards of today. Todays safety standards(ELCB, earthing..) DO however apply, as well as ALL the relevant standards that existed at the time of installation. Any "unsafe" apparatus may not be certified as reasonably safe. This would be issuing an invalid COC which happens to be illegal. Unfortunately there is no recourse through the "official" channels. I suggest that you advise the homeowner to approach his legal advisor about instituting a claim for damages against the offender. If the home is newly purchased his best option is to cancel the purchase if he is still within the cooling off period.

[Jerrad]

That is the unfortunate truth, there is no official channel where these kind of issues can be settled- it always ends up "your word against mine". The home owner only moved in after the transfer has been done. It is a concern to me that a fuse box can be classified as reasonably safe, what about those re-wireable fuses that most of the time have the incorrect fuse wires? This is a very grey area to me, thus I feel when in doubt, follow the latest code of practice.

[Leecatt]

That is the unfortunate truth, there is no official channel where these kind of issues can be settled- it always ends up "your word against mine". The home owner only moved in after the transfer has been done. It is a concern to me that a fuse box can be classified as reasonably safe, what about those re-wireable fuses that most of the time have the incorrect fuse wires? This is a very grey area to me, thus I feel when in doubt, follow the latest code of practice.

You cannot issue a COC on an installation that has Fuses.
You cannot buy the fuse wire anymore therefore rendering the fuses useless
rendering the installation NOT reasonably safe. The fuses must be replaced by circuit breakers of the correct rating for the cable it protects.

[murdock]

You cannot issue a COC on an installation that has Fuses.
You cannot buy the fuse wire anymore therefore rendering the fuses useless
rendering the installation NOT reasonably safe. The fuses must be replaced by circuit breakers of the correct rating for the cable it protects.

please back these statements up with reference to the code.

[Leecatt]

please back these statements up with reference to the code.

Hi Murdock,
I dont understand what you are asking for.
The fuses are of the re wirable type, you cannot buy the wire anymore, once the fuse wire has blown they are useless.
I am not talking about fuses as found in Machinery panels

[murdock]

fact...you cannot install fuses in a new "domestic" installation...but there is no rules in the sans book that indicated that you cannot pass a domestic installation which had fuses installed orginally...however you can indicate to the owner that it would be advisable to replace the fuses and upgrade the fuse to a new DB with circuit breakers and earth leakage.

just like an installation which has no earth leakage...if there have been no alterations or addtions done since the date date the rule was enforced...we all know this is hard to apply because i have seen numerous installations where a plug has been installed and twin+e has been used...however i do advise the customer to install an earth leakage for their own safety and mine...while working in the building

[murdock]

for the record i am more comfortable with older installations...whenever i do an inspection reports...8 out of 10 faults found are normally additions and alterations to older installations...i find the original installation still complies...its the joints done next original junction box...or fans installed and not earthed...cutting into exsisitng piping and not extending the earthing...fitting new breakers and not fitting the correct blanks...non weather proof boxes used outside...additional lighting and plugs to swimming pool dbs...bad gate motors and post top lighting installtions..etc...etc...etc.

so here is a question for you...do you pass the installation if the meter has a fuse box...and heres the joke mounted right on the front verandah with exposed wires?