ECB and the idiots from the "AIA"

[Mark Palmer]

9 March 2012.

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS.

It has come to the notice of the ECBSA, that certain correspondence has been circulated widely by GEIA, a so called AIA, regarding the position of the ECB SA in respect of its appointment to carry out contractor registration as well as the validity position of the ECB COC and TEST REPORT.

The ECB respectfully requests all those in possession of this correspondence to kindly ignore it. It is simply designed to sow mistrust and confusion.

The ECB is currently trying to meet with the Chief Inspector to clarify the ECB’s position in respect of the letter received. In either event the letter is clear in that the ECB is to CONTINUE CONTRACTOR REGISTRATION at least until the 31st of May 2012. No provision has been made for the appointment of any other registering agent and it is our belief that any other private body carrying out such a function would be ultra vires.

Contractors are therefore to continue to register as before and to ensure that they check the date for their re-registration and should it fall due on or before the 31st May 2012 they are required to register with the ECB on or before that date.

In respect of COC’s the ECB COC and test report with a unique number is still valid and available in hard copy as well as in electronic format. Simply go to the ECB website at www.ecbsa.co.za and register to use the e-COC or buy the hard copy from the National Office.

This is not the first time that this so called AIA and others have gone out of their way to sow confusion in the industry. I trust that this clarifies the ECB’s position.

Should you have any other queries please do not hesitate to contact the ECB either by e mail or by telephoning on 012-751 2290, 012-751 4025, 012-753 8081

Tony Mc Donald

Chairperson ECB SA.

It is saddening that in the current tumultuous state of the Electrical Industry that Adam looks to blame the AIA, and in particular me personally, for all it's shortcomings. The fact of the matter is that the ECB has for many years requested Registration Fees from electrical contractors by "volunteering" in the first place to do so. If we look at the provisions of the Electrical Installation Regulations 1992, it was clearly stipulated that such "registration" would be done by the ECB (in view of their volunteering" to do so), on the condition that such registration would be done "free of charge". So much for them complying with the law. Then the new Electrical Installation Regulations were published in 2009 which removed the ECB from the legislation. In view of the fact that the Department of Labour were not in a position at the time to do registration themselves, they issued a letter to the ECB on the 01/02/2010 allowing "temporary registration" of electrical contractors to be continued by the ECB with a further condition, that because a cost was now incorporated into the new regulations, that they could recoup the legislated cost. This cost is set at R 120.00. Again the ECB charged an additional R 200.00 "administration fee" over and above the legislated cost. So much again for compliance with the law. So now, after 20 years of collecting "illicit" registration fees from electrical contractors, the Department of Labour have officially taken all legislated activities away from the ECB as at the 01/06/2012. I have advised electrical contractors accordingly. The advice given to electrical contractors is in line with current legislation which precribes that an electrical contractor shall register with the "Chief Inspector" or a person appointed by the Chief Inspector. I am not registering contractors myself "as per the allegations" but am merely providing a conduit for electrical contractors to register directly with the Chief Inspector with no charge for any administration on my part. So, contractors may, as is their democratic right and as is Adams, his democratic right, pay any amount of money for whatever they want. Other contractors however, also have the right to hear the truth and make their own decisions. To close, the editor of the EE New Publishers published an article this month confirming the very information the ECB accused me of "mistrust and confusion" with and Mr Tony McDonald in an interview conceded that the ECB was officially "extinct" in so far as electrical regulations were concerned.

[Dave A]

As much fun as watching the mud slinging is (and by all means continue), I can't help feeling that the core of the problem is finding a viable mechanism to properly regulate the industry.

The ECA used to be the ECB's puppet master and (arguably) sponsor.
Then that plan was abandoned by the ECA and up came the AIA idea.

Now from what I gather, the AIA concept hasn't been a roaring success - perhaps even conceptually flawed from the outset.

I suggest what the industry needs is a clear, viable regulatory plan - that's worth paying for!

[Adam Mashinini]

....The advice given to electrical contractors is in line with current legislation which precribes that an electrical contractor shall register with the "Chief Inspector" or a person appointed by the Chief Inspector. I am not registering contractors myself "as per the allegations" but am merely providing a conduit for electrical contractors to register directly with the Chief Inspector with no charge for any administration on my part.

Liar liar pants on fire. I call you out Mark Palmer. This is EXACTLY what your (geia) end goal is. In fact it was mentioned in my presence numerous times by your "puppets". You and your "geia" wants "full control" over the electrical contracting domain, and that is very, very dangerous. As it is, inspections carried out by your "geia" is frequently done outside the paramaters of the current electrical regulations, with your geia twisting the regulations as you please.

At the cost of the consumer. Everyone wants to squeeze the last drop out of the consumer by twisting the regulations into oblivion.

The state of the electrical industry is that the geia wants to play judge, jury and executioner. You know and I know it, and a lot of other contractors know it. The current ECB knows it. I just hope the "Chief Inspector" knows it.

The geia must NEVER be in a position to provide any type of input whether a contractor can be a registered person or not, because that leaves the door open for even more abuse by the geia.

I guess time will tell.

[Mark Palmer]

Adam, you are a sad and misguided individual. I am indeed flattered that your perception of my powers is so great that I occupy so much of your waking day (and maybe much of your unconcious day). In reviewing your input to this forum, I hope some time to see just one positive contribution from you. I can only presume that your absolute hatred for me stems from the fact that you may be one of the rats and mice that many contractors complain about, and indeed have been the subject of an investigation by me. I certainly cannot remember meeting you personally at any stage but would suggest for your own sanity that you come out of the protection of your cyber world and come and have a cup of coffee with me - lay it all out there man - you'll feel better. It always concerns me when contentious issues manifest themselves, that the trend seems to "play the man and not the ball" Come now Adam - you can do it!! "There are none so blind as those who will not see!!"

[Mark Palmer]

No-one ever said that the current system was without flaws - there are indeed many. You are right in that the saddening part is not many individuals put their hands up to come up with a viable alternative and the industry as a whole is not prepared to sit down and put differences aside. Notwithstanding the antagonism towards GEIA by many, there are a great deal more that support my activities. I think my standpoint has been made clear in many of my columns and I have always supported a unified leadership in the industry. It is unfortunate that the ECB not only gave no support for this concept but in doing things their own way also antogonised the Department of Labour to the extent that has led to their demise. New systems of inspection body accreditation are on the table in line with the new Regulations (and barring the ranting and raving of Adam) I hope to shed some light on these new developments.

[Sparks]

I still maintain that the Onbudsman was working very well. Complaints were investigated expeditiously and the contractor delivering illegal work was taken to task within days. There was no red tape and he had the clout to have stiff fines imposed and even imprisonment where justified. Like the rest of SA a good working system has been dumped for nothing in return. The only way I see forward is to go backward and re-instate the onbudsman. Now that would get our industry cleaned up quickly. Especially if he is proclaimed to the public as the policeman.

[Adam Mashinini]

Adam, you are a sad and misguided individual. I am indeed flattered that your perception of my powers is so great that I occupy so much of your waking day (and maybe much of your unconcious day). In reviewing your input to this forum, I hope some time to see just one positive contribution from you. I can only presume that your absolute hatred for me stems from the fact that you may be one of the rats and mice that many contractors complain about, and indeed have been the subject of an investigation by me. I certainly cannot remember meeting you personally at any stage but would suggest for your own sanity that you come out of the protection of your cyber world and come and have a cup of coffee with me - lay it all out there man - you'll feel better. It always concerns me when contentious issues manifest themselves, that the trend seems to "play the man and not the ball" Come now Adam - you can do it!! "There are none so blind as those who will not see!!"

Last reply to mark palmer, i am wasting my bosses time: You will be surprised to know who I work for and HOW close i am to you. Your "inspections" does not concern our company directly since you are not allowed on our sites and your "inspections" is not worth the paper it is puked on.

I am not hiding, if you pull your head out of your ass you will know the various contractors, Dept of Labour and their staff (or rats and mice as you call it), so start networking. My name is Adam Mashinini.

The day I will have coffee (or anything else for that matter) with you is day they arrest my ass, so thank you but no thank you.

The protection the cyberworld offers me is from hypocrites like you, who abuse power and legislation to further your own murky agendas. The protection is for my company, not for me personally. We are well aware of your bullying and scare tactics which can damage our reputation.

Your post says a lot of who you are. Your despotic nature and misguided "authority" is a poor attempt to divert the issue.

You never denied my claim that you (geia) aimed to be judge jury and executioner for the electrical industry. Why else do want the ecb's function (and others) so desperately? You practically begged for it, remember?

Thank you and good riddance.

[AndyD]

Last reply to mark palmer.....

I think your opinion of Mark is very clear but why let emotions get in the way of a great opportunity to debate the issues constructively.

[Martinco]

I think your opinion of Mark is very clear but why let emotions get in the way of a great opportunity to debate the issues constructively.

I am with Andy.................play the ball and not the man.

Thus far this forum has been clean and tidy and making rude comments about a person does not belong here !

Let's keep it clean .

[Adam Mashinini]

I am with Andy.................play the ball and not the man.

Thus far this forum has been clean and tidy and making rude comments about a person does not belong here !

Let's keep it clean .

I agree, insinuating that I am a rat or 'n mice is insulting. Mocking me with "you can do it" implies that I am inferior, something I have to deal with every day, especially from racists. What's new.

But of course it is not seen that way. I understand. sorry baas.

The problem here is, unfortunately, the man, and not the ball. the geia is, in principle, a good idea, but unfortunately "the man" is steering it towards a one party state, where the end aim is to control who will have a job and who not. This has happenned numerous time and it was not the ball, it was the man who dribbles the ball.