The bitch is back!

[Mark Atkinson]

I'm sorry to hear about all your troubles, Mother. I do have my doubts about your bitchy side though.

I can definitely relate to your mindset, though. I will always be at the forefront of the struggle against corporates misusing their power to undermine and cheat their customers. (See my Varsity College debacle)

I find that extreme negative publicity is the most effective form of seeing results from such companies. I have seen results from MTN and Varsity College after expressing my contempt in various places on the Internet. You do, however, get companies who seemingly couldn't care less. Autopage is an example. With those companies - just stay away.

I believe strongly that a customer should not be charged for a service that he/she will not or cannot use, particularly for reasons out of his/her control. In our business we don't charge a cent until the customer is satisfied with the design of the website/logo. Our clients can walk away after having seen the mock-up, no questions asked.

I just feel like customer service and the customer experience is an extremely neglected facet of business in South Africa. There are very few who do it well.

Good luck with your struggle, Mother. I don't believe you will be bitchy for very long, though.

[Blurock]

Mother, you have my full support! Most of Corporate SA think they can con consumers and get away with it. I am sure that the new consumer act may provide you with some protection. With regards to you friends....

Just one thing about the difference between stop orders and debit orders. A stop order is an instruction to the bank, instructing them to pay a certain amount to a beneficiary on a set date. A debit order is an authorisation to a beneficiary to deduct money from your account on a set date. The amount on the stop order is fixed, while the amount on the debit order may be adjusted by the authorized beneficiary.

A stop order can be stopped by the bank at any time, but a debit order can only be stopped by the authorised beneficiary or service provider. A stop payment instruction will only stop the current month's debit order and not the whole series of payments due. The reason for this is that a magtape is prepared about a month in advance. The tape contains all the payment instructions to be processed by the bank and may differ from month to month. If you give your stop payment instruction too late, the current month's payment may still go through as it may have been processed already.

This is not the bank's problem. That is why we must be very careful when we sign debit orders. A debit order should also have an upper limit so that it prevents the beneficiary from deducting unauthorized amounts. Only authorize debit orders to trusted suppliers and suppliers who will not give you hassles when you cancel.

I sincerely hope that you can recover your money. An option maybe to attach the house?

[Just Gone]

Yep @ Blurock .............. as I said Stop orders .............. not debit orders !!

[Dave A]

That "lesson 1" has been bothering me - hard to see a good end to that one. Even if you get the money it's likely to ruin the friendship.
And the danger in applying for liquidation is the assets might not realise all their debts, and the bank will get first bite as a secured creditor. You might not get all your money

One thought that did occur is instead of going the "bitchy" legal route, ask them to convert the debt to a notarial bond on the property. At least that way your money is secured if/when they do sell and you could charge interest. Costs of registering the bond for their account, of course. (If they don't like it, they can always just pay up ).
The possible snag is the National Credit Act - not sure if you'd need to register as a credit provider.

[mother]

Thanks for the support, guys! I guess first of all I just needed to get it all off my chest, which helped. And thanks for that informative explaination on debit orders vs stop orders, Blurock! Very helpful!

Just a little feedback: I have found a lawyer. And an option B in the wings, just in case. I personally sent a letter to them as "final demand for payment", nothing happened, just excuses. So now it's in the pitbull's hands (jaws)! I asked him to do WHATEVER needs to be done, I'm finished with being nice. You know, Dave, it's not that the friendship is going to be ruined, it's already ruined. I was just too civilized about it for too long now, trying to be understanding and compassionate, but in the end it is at my expense.

Oh, and the ADT story just gets better! I posted my grievance on hellopeter.com. Got a reply early the very next day, thanking me for bringing this to their attention, and saying that someone will phone me before 11h00 to sort this out. Well, that night I wanted to "reply" to their comment on hellopeter, to say that no-one called. I couldn't believe that, according to the website's T&C's, I'm not allowed to reply within 5 days! Only on day 6 was I allowed the option to reply. So I did! (By the way, if you want to use the words "stealing" or "lie" on hellopeter, you should misspell it, otherwise it gets moderated out and becomes ******). ADT replied to my second (far more pissed off) comment almost immediately to say that "This matter has been escalated to the relevant manager and somebody will be in contact with you." Oh how sweet! Please note that "somebody" will phone me ... I guess, whenever? That was 4 days ago! I know they're not gonna call.

But I think I'm equally disappointed in hellopeter. I thought it was a platform that gave a voice to abused consumers. But your voice isn't actually heard there, because the site is being flooded by complaints at a rate of nearly 1 every minute. And you know, if things are so bad that so many people have so many complaints, then the badness has become the norm and complaints are no longer valid! Also, the site doesn't allow enough freedom to really express your feelings (i.e. words moderated out), it limits your complaint to 1200 characters (well, I can't stick to that and tell the whole story, especially not if I'm using appropriate adjectives), it limits your replies to 1 every 5 days and a maximum of 500 characters. Oh crap man!!!

Now I'm angry again!

[mother]

ask them to convert the debt to a notarial bond on the property. At least that way your money is secured if/when they do sell and you could charge interest. Costs of registering the bond for their account, of course. (If they don't like it, they can always just pay up ).
The possible snag is the National Credit Act - not sure if you'd need to register as a credit provider.

I'm gonna chat to the lawyer about this option. You're right, it might be the safest option (not the most satisfying at this stage - I was really looking forward to tasting some blood).

[Blurock]

Would it maybe help to get the name of a director of ADT and make an appointment to see him? I do not like dealing with a faceless entity - far too alien for me.

Once you have spoken to "Johnny" and he has made idle promises, you can start putting his name in the correspondence to the newspapers and consumer bodies....

[SANDY23]

Buying a house on that basis is really taking a massive chance!!!!!! Friends or no friends you cannot trust anybody today, you are R200 000 out of pocket and they still own the house, I bet you they sleep well at night. If you are in employment I would suggest you take a loan get yourself an attorney and sue the shit out of them. Take the house, the car, the cats dogs, false teeth etc, you have nothing in writing but why would you lie you tried to help. They are in shit not you, so sue them for the money, use your bank account withdraw as proof or transfer or however you did it that would stand up, but get them. You can do it. Go online and see if you for a minimum fee can lodge at the court yourself, I will make a few enquiries, get hold of me through this thread. Good luck.

[Sparks]

Sparks, are you serious?!

Now how come I never got this update? A gremlin in the system @ that time Dave? I was serious, did get someone in the end.